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WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

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Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#111

Remember when the previous administration suggested looking into the Lab Leak theory and was laughed at? Remember how you would get banned from Facebook for suggesting that the lab leak theory was a possibility? Then major social networks and the medias reversed their positions. What changed in the meantime, other than the president?

I remember when the previous President said he had evidence of a lab leak, but did not share it or have any corroboration from anyone else in the administration. It was obvious at the time that it was a political tool to drive a nationalist sentiment. The issue is not that people wanted to investigate a lab leak, the issue was that people presented their lab leak theory as a fact. Believing in a theory without any ev…

We have hospitalization records of lab staff, which Trump kne about and was later declassified.

We have e-mail evidence of lab employees explicitly asking reporters not to report on the potential.

And we have a novel virus that appeared centered around a biomedical research lab doing gain of function research on closely related viruses.

Simply due to the level of accusation and its implications, the claim deserved investigation from day one not out of hand dismissal.

Imagine if someone is found with a gun right next to a shooting scene, and everyone around you insisted that he certainly could not be the one who did any wrong because... racism or something. And then later on, you find that that guys friends spoke privately with the police and asked them not to conduct an investigation. Shouldn't that arouse suspicion in normal people?

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#112
post #51
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember, and I am sure that many others do if they are honest with themselves. America needs to stand united. We have let politics drive a deep wedge between neighbors and families. We live at the peak of the information age but our natures have not changed. Both left and right need to focus on being unified, not strong-arming the other side.

And people on "the left and right" need to remember that plenty of people don't believe in "sides" and just want to live their lives without being bullied around by whoever happens be in power or whatever ideas are popular at the moment. I don't want unity. People obsessed with politics think they just need consensus to solve any problem, despite the atrocious track record of political solutions. Just leave the rest…

> I don't want unity

And this sentiment is problematic, because other countries have unity and are not afraid to use it.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes the media look worse, not better. Their true inclination is to think one thing but they self censored so they wouldn't be seen as agreeing with the bad orange man?

Perhaps. That does not change the fact that when you bloviate, demean and deflect, as did Trump, you will be disliked and distrusted. Reputation matters when making a claim that--in that moment--could not be supported with real evidence. Was it a plausible theory for the origin of the virus? Sure. But, when that message becomes entangled with a larger xenophobic rhetoric, then it just seems like, well, xenophobia. Ag…

I'm talking about the media's credibility. I'll give them "more credible than Trump" as a freebie but after that they have to earn it.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#114

Everyone with common sense must assume that a lab which does experiments on Corona viruses is the most likely source and not the food market nearby. It's really that simple...

The lab was located there because the wet markets and local bat population have been a historical epicenter of respiratory diseases.

Love or hate china, you gotta appreciate their brilliance in choice of location for a bioweapons lab.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#115
post #76
post #26

I'm not skilled enough in the biomedical background to evaluate the various genetics-based articles written for or against natural-origin and lab-origin hypotheses. As a layman, however, I find the degree to which the Chinese government has stomped all over foreign-led investigations into the origin of SARS-Cov-2 to be highly, highly suspicious.

> I find the degree to which the Chinese government has stomped all over foreign-led investigations into the origin of SARS-Cov-2 to be highly, highly suspicious. I don't find it suspicious at all, precisely because I don't trust the Chinese government. In my estimation of the CPC, the following probabilities are all roughly equal (and close to 1): * P(suppress investigation | natural origin) * P(suppress investigati…

Not sure that makes sense given your presumed knowledge of the Chinese government's reaction to SARS?

Or are you in bad faith giving dubious priors?

"This lack of openness caused delays in efforts to control the epidemic, resulting in criticism of the People's Republic of China from the international community. China officially apologized for early slowness in dealing with the SARS epidemic."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndr...

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#116
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese didn't do anything that we wouldn't have done. In fact, they took better steps than we did, as far as the pandemic is concerned. Of course the dude had concerns, anyone with half a brain would explore all of the possible origins and theories. But the lab leak theory is just that - one theory that could explain the situation at hand. The problem is that too many people have put far too much stock in the la…

I'd like to think we don't put doctors in jail when they raise the alarm on a new virus.

Sure, and I'd like to think we don't run scientific tests on black people without their knowledge or consent, but that doesn't line up either.

If you think the U.S. is above unlawfully detaining a doctor, then I've got sad news for you.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#117
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find the degree to which the Chinese government has stomped all over foreign-led investigations into the origin of SARS-Cov-2 to be highly, highly suspicious. I don't find it suspicious at all, precisely because I don't trust the Chinese government. In my estimation of the CPC, the following probabilities are all roughly equal (and close to 1): * P(suppress investigation | natural origin) * P(suppress investigati…

This is exactly what's so frustrating about the media treating the gain-of-function research they were doing as the "smoking gun" is so disingenuous. We were doing all of the same types of research, even cooperating with their government on some of it in our own labs IN CHINA, and then all of a sudden we turn around and blame them? Come on, people, you're playing right into what the propaganda says happened. They're…

Right, but the purpose of the narrative is not to compare whether we are doing the same thing. It is to blame China for the pandemic. TBH, if we did the same thing, I expect the rest of the world would blame us.

That said, it seems pretty unproductive at this point to blame anyone, but it does seem productive to avoid it happening again.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what's so frustrating about the media treating the gain-of-function research they were doing as the "smoking gun" is so disingenuous. We were doing all of the same types of research, even cooperating with their government on some of it in our own labs IN CHINA, and then all of a sudden we turn around and blame them? Come on, people, you're playing right into what the propaganda says happened. They're…

Right, but the purpose of the narrative is not to compare whether we are doing the same thing. It is to blame China for the pandemic. TBH, if we did the same thing, I expect the rest of the world would blame us. That said, it seems pretty unproductive at this point to blame anyone, but it does seem productive to avoid it happening again.

That's exactly my point. It doesn't help anyone to blame anyone else, and the fact that Americans are so fast to blame China is very telling.

Years of propaganda has worked its magic in far more sinister ways than any of us want to admit, especially to ourselves.

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#119

Everyone with common sense must assume that a lab which does experiments on Corona viruses is the most likely source and not the food market nearby. It's really that simple...

The lab was located there because the wet markets and local bat population have been a historical epicenter of respiratory diseases.

“I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”

- Shi Zhengli

Re: WHO inquiry chief 'had concerns' about lab close to first Covid cases

#120
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to think we don't put doctors in jail when they raise the alarm on a new virus.

Sure, and I'd like to think we don't run scientific tests on black people without their knowledge or consent, but that doesn't line up either. If you think the U.S. is above unlawfully detaining a doctor, then I've got sad news for you.

Great argument... if the US did this, I'm sure no one would demand an investigation... /s
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