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The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

kingsley.sh

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Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who are against universal healthcare usually pitch it as an argument for "choice", as if I'm going to compare prices when I have a ruptured appendix. It's also usually couched in anti-government sentiment, where they draw comparisons to "lines at the DMV", as if other countries with universal healthcare have people dying while waiting in line for care, something that also doesn't happen.

> as if other countries with universal healthcare have people dying while waiting in line for care This absolutely does happen in the UK, although I'd pick our health over the US's any day of the week.

Agreed on both points. The UK system is far from perfect but for balance we should also say that it is not normal or expected for something as bad as that to happen here. Even in recent times, with the extra pressures of COVID, critical care has mostly kept up and the emergency overflow facilities that were built very quickly in case of overwhelming demand mostly went unused.

Obviously there will always be limits and the available resources will run out if one of them is reached. In the aftermath of a major incident or an unusually busy period it can happen. I expect a lot of us from the UK might agree that the limits need to be raised further by investing more into the NHS. But I would still choose this type of system over a US-style one every time. I've never heard of anyone here dying because they couldn't afford tens of thousands for routine medication to treat a common condition.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#112
post #47

This is the single reason why I could not live in the US. Each time I'd receive such bill, even when insured, I'd have a heart attack. How can people in the US think about anything else? It is so daunting and depressing from my point of view.

Indeed. Compared to the UK and France, the life expectancy and healthcare cost are both worse.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health...

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#113
post #86
post #52

This hits home for me.. my son (now 4 years old) was born very premature at 29 weeks and some change. He spent 7 weeks and 4 days in the NICU. The total hospital bill that was charged to insurance (before settling it between themselves) was roughly 960_000$. If you include the additional services and whatnot in the few months following being discharged from the hospital he was a million dollar baby. Complete insanity…

The billing system is a complete farce. Here’s a large made up number for the total bill, ok here’s another large number because we like your insurance, and finally here’s what your insurance actually paid. My wife had complications the first time and the total bill was like $35k, insurance paid $9k, and our cost was $0. We actually got our $250 admission back. Nobody pays the made of number from the first bill not e…

Sure, but if they stress you out enough with the made up numbers you will be a return customer sooner than you would like.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#114
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment misses the point. There are two reasons why this bill is so high: 1. Some doctors and some hospitals are make tremendous amount of money - hospital revenue is about $1T and doctor revenue is about .5T. 2. This country has an insatiable demand for expensive healthcare. There’s no country with universal coverage where a child with little chance for survival would have received this level of care.

A quick google led be to this example of a child receiving 5 months care after being born 18 weeks premature in an NHS hospital: https://www.lancsteachinghospitals.nhs.uk/latest-news/happy-...

See also: Stephen Hawking.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/mar/14/i-would-not-...

> As the Obama administration sought to reform the US healthcare system in 2009, the US Investor’s Business Daily argued that Stephen Hawking “wouldn’t have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless”.

> It was duly pointed out that Hawking was not only born and educated in England, but received more care than most from the nation’s health service. “I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS,” Hawking told the Guardian at the time. “I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.”

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#116
post #100
post #52

This hits home for me.. my son (now 4 years old) was born very premature at 29 weeks and some change. He spent 7 weeks and 4 days in the NICU. The total hospital bill that was charged to insurance (before settling it between themselves) was roughly 960_000$. If you include the additional services and whatnot in the few months following being discharged from the hospital he was a million dollar baby. Complete insanity…

In Israel we have public healthcare. I was born at week 32 and spent about 6 weeks in the NICU - everything was free. It's not always great and I do pay for private insurance in case I need something urgent - but everything emergency is absolutely covered. I believe it's this state in most developed places that are not the US?

Same in Argentina.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of negative stories about the British health system including people waiting 6+ months to see doctors (while in pain or having other symptoms that lower quality of life significantly). If you think an American universal health system will be somehow better than that then I suspect you're a lot more optimistic about the US government than most people. edit: I do love echo chambers, someone asks a ques…

> I've heard a lot of negative stories about the British health system including people waiting 6+ months to see doctors... The wait time for an American at the poverty line seeking care for an expensive but non-emergency chronic condition can be effectively infinite . My wife receives treatment for chronic pain. Getting treatment at a pain clinic started required five visits (including being able to physically get t…

The question was about how can people be anti-universal healthcare. As you pointed out the group most impacted are those who are poor but not so poor as to be on Medicaid. You also need to exclude ex-military as they have VA benefits. And those over 65 who are on Medicare. That's not a majority or close to it of the population.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#118
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK gives this level of care to many people routinely.

As do France and Germany.

Portugal too. Our system is far from perfect (the best medication is sometimes prohibitively expensive for some people who really need it - chronic patients, pensioners) but there are many examples of our national health system investing heavily in particular individuals with little chance for survival.

A recent example is health system paying for Zolgensma, the most expensive medication in the world, leading to millions of expense per year[1][2] on this medication alone for a very small amount of babies.

[1] https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/saude/estado-gastou-4-1-milho...

[2] https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-eyes-arrival-of-world...

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#119
post #56
post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

> I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. Because I have zero faith that it will end up costing me less, and have a similar level of quality. I’m in tech. Combined HHI is something in the $200s. I pay about $300 per month for the entire family, $5K out of pocket max. So in a worst case scenario, let’s say healthcare costs me $9K per year. That’s what, 4% of my HHI? Will a universa…

What if you get a stroke tomorrow and you can't work anymore?

> In the end, the poor will benefit greatly

"The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members." -Gandhi.

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