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Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

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Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#111

Post by dillondoyle »

wruza wrote: post #100
rchaves wrote: post #94

I’m honestly very okay with this “search-first” mentality the author claims Google promotes. I’ve never organized my photos anymore thanks to Google Photos amazing search, no more time wasted organizing windows media player albums like in the old times thanks to Spotify, I never organize my notes on Notes app but can always find old stuff, my Google Drive is a bit more organized but still I basically go by recent ite…

Nice, but please tell how am I supposed to search for bookmarks I made in japanese section of xvideos? we are just so overwhelmed with information nowadays it’s impossible to keep organizing it, why not let machines just find what we want whenever we need them Then you don’t need bookmarks. You bookmark for a reason, and one of these is that you may not remember exact wording and use other cues like when you did it,…

LOL. I have a possible solution.

I basically add tags when bookmarking and categorize distinct 'tastes' by adding typed keywords into the bookmark text.

Though that's an argument that standard search alone isn't enough.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#112

Post by mleonhard »

abxytg wrote: post #18

Google also debuted a new Driving Mode on Google Maps that... entirely changes the UI of of the app and several parts of the phone interface itself. I have never had to look at my phone while driving more in my entire life. It's my fault for using the phone, but it very nearly caused 2 accidents for me this weekend as I tried to get google maps to update or display a particular UI. I truly wonder what is going on ove…

The UIs constantly change because Google engineers and designers need to get promoted.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#113

Post by ethbr0 »

version_five wrote: post #67
TeMPOraL wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will very much use organizing features if you provide them. Whether it's groups for icons, folders for files, labels for e-mails, tags and colors for documents, or drawers for socks - most people seem to recognize that being organized is a virtue , and will attempt it to the extent it is possible and convenient. Not giving features for self-organization is a choice .

Do you have some basis for these assertions? Personally I agree with the GP but it's personal anecdata only. I would never consider using tags (or a sock drawer) and in my experience working with others with collaboration tools that use tags, there might be one person who is keen in them but they are never widely used. I think this backs up the GPs point that yes, some may find it useful, but it's not necessarily a "…

You don't backlink your socks to color family and iconography? Heathen!

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#114

Post by TeMPOraL »

Tenoke wrote: post #103
TeMPOraL wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it doesn't seem to have gotten an update in years (if ever since launch) That's probably why it doesn't suck as badly as most other Google products. > you can't change the ordering etc. Of notes? Of checkbox items? In both cases: you most definitely can. I just did that, both in the browser and in the app.

>Of notes? Of checkbox items? In both cases: you most definitely can. I just did that, both in the browser and in the app. You can reorder them one by one but there's no option to then re-order by last edited or created or ascending or anything. Is there?

Sorry, I thought you meant reordering as in manual ordering. No, as far as I can tell, there is no way to sort or automatically reorder notes or lists by anything.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#115

Post by abxytg »

yupper32 wrote: post #109
abxytg wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's my fault for using the phone I do take the blame. I'm driving somewhere 6 hours away that I've never been with a dog in the car. Normally it's quite safe for me to do things like manage turn by turn navigation, and pick up a hands free call, or pause an audiobook, or ask the phone to reroute me to food, gas, or a rest stop. If you are able to drive solo 6 hours to a new place in total silence without stopping…

You're still avoiding taking all the blame by making excuses and being super defensive. You know damn well sitting in total silence was not my suggestion. I am also able to manage those things without taking my eyes off the road for more than I would looking at my speedometer. If there's a new UI that's new and different, you should have pulled over to figure it out instead of almost crashing not once, but twice.

For whatever reason you really have an axe to grind here. I understand you can get pedantic about my phrasing and language but when I tell you I was 100% at fault, what do you gain by picking apart my language to try to prove to me I don't feel that way? I do feel that way, thanks!

> I am also able to manage those things without taking my eyes off the road for more than I would looking at my speedometer.

Yea so that would be normal operating procedure for me as well! Definitely I should have pulled over when the severity of the UI change became clear to me, but it was already too late and I was slamming the brakes. I was in the far left lane in bumper to bumper traffic and it wasn't quite as simple as you think it must have been. Can you understand my frustration at needing to do that? I made the wrong choice and I didn't do that. Can you still understand my frustration with the situation?

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#116

Post by GuB-42 »

I have always been in the "search" camp. Even on my local hard drive, grep and locate are my tools of choice.

So, no need for Google to prefer a search-based approach. In fact, I will gladly give up all my organization tools for better search, and that's why I am happy with Google's way. I actually dislike most of their UI decisions, like I hate most of the modern web/electon app design, not just Google's. But search-over-organization, love it.

I wouldn't call it a dark pattern, just not a pattern suitable for the author. I would like to say, go find something else, Google is about search and has always been, but unfortunately, the options are limited. Maybe because Google is so successful, most of the other big names go search-first, but do it poorly. They don't search as well as Google, and don't have good organization tools.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#117

Post by alisonkisk »

whimsicalism wrote: post #32
tasogare wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is tons if options to find files on macOS: the find command, spotlight, search in the finder, hierarchical view in the finder. Which popular OS has a better system than that?

The search on MacOS is unusable for me. It always surfaces wrong/irrelevant things and defaults to searching in the oddest places.

but it's the easiest way to find system header files. Who cares about Preference Panes?!

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#118

Post by perl4ever »

detaro wrote: post #73
RC_ITR wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is not the way to win that culture war. Agree that using phones while driving is generally bad, but implying that it is irresponsible to use turn-by-turn (and suggesting the alternative of just knowing where you are) is just more likely to make people ignore the problem all together.

> but implying that it is irresponsible to use turn-by-turn It isn't irresponsible to use turn-by-turn navigation (and I don't think GP is implying that). It's irresponsible to fiddle with the phone you are using for that purpose while driving.

>It isn't irresponsible to use turn-by-turn navigation (and I don't think GP is implying that)

They wrote:

"...intentional decision making processes that lead up to a crash (for instance, using an app to navigate..."

They straight out stated that using navigation predictably leads to crashes and must be regarded as intentional.

So I don't see any way to avoid the conclusion that they think navigation is ethically and practically the same as DUI/DWI.

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#119

Post by perl4ever »

yupper32 wrote: post #109
abxytg wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's my fault for using the phone I do take the blame. I'm driving somewhere 6 hours away that I've never been with a dog in the car. Normally it's quite safe for me to do things like manage turn by turn navigation, and pick up a hands free call, or pause an audiobook, or ask the phone to reroute me to food, gas, or a rest stop. If you are able to drive solo 6 hours to a new place in total silence without stopping…

You're still avoiding taking all the blame by making excuses and being super defensive. You know damn well sitting in total silence was not my suggestion. I am also able to manage those things without taking my eyes off the road for more than I would looking at my speedometer. If there's a new UI that's new and different, you should have pulled over to figure it out instead of almost crashing not once, but twice.

>You're still avoiding taking all the blame by making excuses and being super defensive

Since you are so concerned about automobile safety, do you have any suggestion on how to get a taxi/Uber/Lyft/etc driver who keeps at least one hand firmly grasping the steering wheel at all times the car is in motion?

Re: Why Google's bookmark manager and Docs have purposefully bad UI

#120

Post by eitland »

marcinzm wrote: post #80
TeMPOraL wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will very much use organizing features if you provide them. Whether it's groups for icons, folders for files, labels for e-mails, tags and colors for documents, or drawers for socks - most people seem to recognize that being organized is a virtue , and will attempt it to the extent it is possible and convenient. Not giving features for self-organization is a choice .

Except Bookmarks and Docs have folders already so the question isn't "no organization" vs "organization" but "tags" vs "folders." This book for example cites data that the majority of users prefer hierarchical organization: https://books.google.com/books?id=EO91DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA137&lpg=... Adding tags has a chance of causing user confusion, UI congestion and impact on existing tools (in the case of Google Drive) so it's…

> This book for example cites data that the majority of users prefer hierarchical organization: https://books.google.com/books?id=EO91DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA137&lpg=...

Based on the snippet linked, not exactly thst.

For example one of the thing the book says is users of earlier Windows versions used hierarchical structures.

To which I point out: the only alternative wasn't tags but a flat non-hierarchical lack of structure.

Another thing: The Gmail team got it kind of right, they introduced hierarchical tags.

Sometimes one solution is obviously better and you just need to get the knowlegde out.

Other times there are good reasons to keep both: I personally very much want to have both folders and tags.

At no point should one however take the modern ux trick: hide the power tool, use the fact that no one use it anymore as proof that no one wants it and then remove it.

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