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Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

fortune.com

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Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#111

Post by adrianN »

School-Cotton wrote: post #79
aunty_helen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Describing the covid pandemic as simply a small decrease in life expectancy is a little on the nose. Also, as a vaccinated New Zealander who after spending 5 months at home is now traveling again, I can assure you people there are happy and mostly oblivious to what has gone on overseas. The travel restrictions whilst draconian, aren’t absolute and are being eased when needed. The travel bubble with Australia being a…

> Describing the covid pandemic as simply a small decrease in life expectancy is a little on the nose. How so? The first result I could find[1] estimates that life expectancy decreased by 1.18 years in the US due to the pandemic, which doesn't strike me as extreme. 1: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/5/e2014746118

That's 1.18 years despite all the countermeasures the US has implemented.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#112

Post by mindslight »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #93
andybak wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same finger-waggers who want everyone vaccinated or quarantined Ignoring the name-calling for a moment, what is it that you want for everyone?

To have autonomy over their own medical decisions.

Education and intelligence are necessary for achieving autonomy. In general, it's hard to take claims for "autonomy" seriously when so many people's decisions seem to be arrived at by uncritically following social media.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#113

Post by throw0101a »

School-Cotton wrote: post #3

Buried the lede: > At the same time, protection against hospitalization and serious illness remained strong. I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine.

> I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine.

Except for possible brain damage:

> In a June paper[5], he and his team analysed clinical details for 125 people in the United Kingdom with COVID-19 who had neurological or psychiatric effects. Of these, 62% had experienced damage to the brain’s blood supply, such as strokes and haemorrhages, and 31% had altered mental states, such as confusion or prolonged unconsciousness — sometimes accompanied by encephalitis, the swelling of brain tissue. Ten people who had altered mental states developed psychosis.

> Not all people with neurological symptoms have been seriously ill in intensive-care units, either. “We’ve seen this group of younger people without conventional risk factors who are having strokes, and patients having acute changes in mental status that are not otherwise explained,” says Michael.

* https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02599-5

* https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/11/small-study-r...

* https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-hidden-long-term-cog...

Even if you're (fully) vaccinated, it may be prudent to wear a mask.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#114

Post by bena »

School-Cotton wrote: post #79
aunty_helen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Describing the covid pandemic as simply a small decrease in life expectancy is a little on the nose. Also, as a vaccinated New Zealander who after spending 5 months at home is now traveling again, I can assure you people there are happy and mostly oblivious to what has gone on overseas. The travel restrictions whilst draconian, aren’t absolute and are being eased when needed. The travel bubble with Australia being a…

> Describing the covid pandemic as simply a small decrease in life expectancy is a little on the nose. How so? The first result I could find[1] estimates that life expectancy decreased by 1.18 years in the US due to the pandemic, which doesn't strike me as extreme. 1: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/5/e2014746118

Are you aware how hard it is to move the needle by any significant percentage when you are dealing with sets of millions? Life expectancy is essentially an average of when people die.

Not to mention life expectancy was going up. So it not only stopped whatever gains we had, but reversed it by a substantial amount.

We were expected to gain 2 years from 2017 to 2030. That's 13 years to go up 2 years.

About 2.8 million people die in the US each year. The current life expectancy is about 80 years. To make that 80 become 78.8 is the equivalent of 1.5% of the people or 42,000 babies dying as soon as they were born.

Anything that can move the needle that much in such a short time is pretty extreme.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#115

Post by shoto_io »

stavros wrote: post #103
mizzack wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going on on page 12? 35,251 unvax cases, 34 deaths 4,087 full vax cases, 26 deaths (!?) I'm guessing the vax population still skews older?

There's also page 14 here, where more vaccinated than unvaccinated patients died: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... Very odd, especially given the much higher numbers of unvaccinated hospitalizations.

I’m pretty sure this can be explained by the age distributions. Key part is page 44 where they calculate risks.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#116

Post by nradov »

datameta wrote: post #95
refurb wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very fact you’re suggesting every country locks down for 3-4 weeks” as a solution shows youre ignoring reality. All it would take is for 1 person to travel for the epidemic to continue. Maybe developed nations could do it but developing nations are still dealing with illegal border crossers even 1 year into the epidemic. So great theory but it falls flat in reality.

In my scenario travel in both directions would be disallowed for the time period. This also requires neighboring nations to do the same, as well as farther off countries to implement checks at the airport. All this was somewhat done regardless but in a haphazard manner devoid of full international cooperation. So we suffered the major drawbacks anyway all while reaping a partial reward.

Just because something is disallowed doesn't mean people stop doing it.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#117

Post by yosito »

eggy wrote: post #60

I realize the article is specifically about the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and the delta variant, but even in more general articles about immunity, 'natural immunity' is left out of the conversation[1]. You can carry your COVID test paperwork and latest antibody test to show you are equally, if not better protected, however, it strangely is ignored. Or, a study by a vaccine producer (NOVAX), comes up with evidence that…

> the COVID vaccines only have 7 months, since the first vaccine was given

Your comment is full of factual inaccuracies, and this one is easy to refute. The first COVID vaccines were given in trials in February 2020, shortly after the SARS-CoV-2 genome was sequenced, and they've already got 17 months of data.

Also worth repeating what another commenter said, vaccine side effects always show up in the first two months.

You may not trust governments and their narratives. I don't either, and I can still see that the evidence clearly points to these vaccines being safe and effective. There doesn't seem to be much evidence in support of continued living in fear.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#118

Post by chopin »

oldgradstudent wrote: post #53

This has nothing to do with the variants. They've changed the testing policy for the vaccinated, so more of the vaccinated are getting tested. The efficacy was artificially high before because the vaccinated were rarely tested and therefore rarely reported as infected.

Do you have sources for this?

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#119

Post by bena »

deregulateMed wrote: post #65
forinti wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people who were perfectly healthy can't even get out of bed now. It's not a small problem. And neither is having 1% of your population sick and dying in such a short time.

Citation needed. This should be flagged for fear mongering. Edit- And the ambiguity of the word "lots" is particularly unhelpful

I'm sorry, you yourself haven't provided a single citation either. You are requiring others to have a stronger level of evidence than the level of evidence you are providing for your claims.

I don't find it to be in particularly good faith that as soon as someone disputes your claims, you immediately ask them to do research work that you didn't want to do.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#120

Post by dtech »

ralfn wrote: post #100
refurb wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the relative risk increase. What's the absolute risk increase? Varies by age, but for a young person we're talking the risk going from 0.001% to 0.004%.

That's not a one time risk though! So far it seems a person can be infected multiple times. Say you get Covid once a year, that's 0.004% per year. Also, wether you need hospitalisation or not, doesn't change the fact that some people are having permanent issues like lost their stamina, hair loss, loss of smell. I have a coworker with neurological issues, but he is not in a hospital. So the big question is: how effect…

You are much less likely to get infected with the same variant once you've recovered from it, and once vaccinations and natural immunity is more widespread worldwide new variants will arise at a slower rate, similar to flu or cold.
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