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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#111

Post by pm90 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #100
brainless wrote: post #95

I am from India and for the first 8-10 years of my post-college life I drank all the "glory" reporting of the American style of doing business. I tried doing it myself. I fell apart, suffered silently for years. Moved to Germany, went through counseling at the end of that period. Learnt that life is a lot more than silly startup games. No matter what anyone tells me, I have seen it myself first hand - I want a happie…

I am sorry you had such an experience. Startup life has pros and cons, and situationally varied. I've worked on several startup ventures of my own and nothing in the world is more satisfying than "skin in the game". It feels real and impactful. I didn't work more than 8-10 hours a day. People using your products and gratification of the fact that you/your-team built is so much more real to me. Friendships I've formed…

It may not be useful to look at exceptions, rather let’s look at the median. Most startups fail, most people that work at startups get burned out. If people choose to engage in these startups, I hope they do so with open eyes.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#112

Post by devoutsalsa »

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

Speaking of frictionless employment labor movement… In the USA I once called in sick on a Monday & was retroactively fired the previous Friday.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#113

Post by pm90 »

bww wrote: post #103

It’s rather remarkable how many comments in this thread dismissively explain that, sure, the US has created far more super successful companies in recent years but, hey, who even cares about that and actually big companies are stupid anyway and Americans are all brainwashed. That’s interesting for its knee-jerk, defensive quality. But I’ll bite: the point of using huge companies as a proxy for economic performance is…

Big companies are notoriously poor at generating value. Most of their revenues come from a handful of products, and in general most of their resources are spent in ensuring that competitive threats are eliminated. They’re not a good proxy for economic performance; in fact their presence indicates the opposite.

The American economy has succeeded because smaller firms were capable of growing rapidly and challenging and then replacing previous generations of titans. The inability of present or future firms to do this presents an existential threat to the competitiveness of the US economy.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#114

Post by pm90 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #8

Why are European companies so unambitious ? My whole civilian career I've had to work for North American companies because the European alternatives aren't even attempting to be competitive.

European companies are ambitious. Many European multinational firms have a broad presence in most developing countries.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#115

Post by vmception »

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

> Glory to the country I chose as home, which so many natives seem to be delusional about how terrible it is.

The US is a great hopping off point. As in, its great to start from here and take advantage of any system almost anywhere else in the world.

But I would say a wealthy EU or wealthy Swiss starting point is good too. But I wouldn't incorporate there and especially not have employees.

Both systems work the best for business in intangibles.

Many US states are very incompetent and bureaucratic and slow in business formation as well. Its just that those states are completely ignored for the ones that excel in those products.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#116

Post by dv_dt »

jessedhillon wrote: post #108
dv_dt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, mainly I wanted to point out that, there is no conflict between providing a strong social safety net policy and having billionaires. The only reason to avoid the safety net would seem to be a myth that somehow others have to suffer for success to be possible.

I'm not familiar with the wealth situation in Scandinavia, but I just want to point out: what matters is the numbers of millionaires/billionaires created, not just the number existing. For example, these higher numbers could be leftover nobles or aristocracy. Also, it's a pretty unconvincing comparison to pick a small population country to benchmark the US against.

Surveys of some eu nations rank them as friendly for business creation - Sweden Denmark and Switzerland rank pretty high. Universal healthcare at half the cost of the US and built into, but independent of your taxes is pretty nice for starting businesses.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/open-for-business...

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#117

Post by vonsydov »

chrisseaton wrote: post #8

Why are European companies so unambitious ? My whole civilian career I've had to work for North American companies because the European alternatives aren't even attempting to be competitive.

Ambition and competition go together unfortunately.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#118

Post by anchpop »

238475235243 wrote: post #35
underwater wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, Steve Jobs rejected conventional medicine when he became sick, which may have contributed to his premature death.

Or it may have lengthened it. Oncologists are still in la la land about the genetic (as opposed to metabolic) theory of cancer, it's not clear when they will wake up.

Can you elaborate on this?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#119

Post by ekianjo »

analog31 wrote: post #64
238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

Oddly enough I've struggled to find any data showing that the US is actually better for entrepreneurs. It's all anecdotal. I have a small business but it will stay small because I need my day job for health care. Granted, this is but one article: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/10/think-w...

Gdp is not anecdotal.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#120

Post by ouchithurtsma »

Europe is doomed. Nobody in their right mind would start a company here, everybody I know who tried filed for bankruptcy and emigrated to the US. It's a business hostile environment. The only reason there are some big companies is because those have been started a hundred years ago, e.g. Germany is run by old industry and ex nobility families, everybody else is just a peasant pretty much, and those are heavily exploited. People think we Europeans have nice social nets, it's bullshit. I pay more monthly for health insurance than I'd pay in the US. I pay 1700eur/2069USD in social contributions alone per month and I am not even 'rich' in any sense, I can't even afford to buy an apartment in a big city. After that on top 48% tax (overall I earn after all taxes 30cents on the euro!). No wonder nobody wants to work and try to start a big business, there's nothing left. Same goes for companies...shit ton of taxes, regulations. I did the math, you net gain is negative. Europe will slowly die, at least I have some Shorts on it (which are taxed at 27.5%)
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