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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#91

Post by refurb »

oneplane wrote: post #65
238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

On the other hand, people here don't tend to go bankrupt and lose their house, healthcare (ironically) and life (from a social aspect) in general when they don't have a perfect health. They don't have to hide their state of wellbeing from their employer in the hope of not getting fired, and they don't have to worry about living on the street because they don't have a job for a bit. Businesses are fun and all, but in…

You know how I know you’ve never lived or worked in the US? Your characterization is laughable. 50%+ of the federal (never mind state!) budget is social programs. But apparently “there is no safety net”.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#92

Post by gryn »

lashloch wrote: post #77
xwolfi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in Normandy, it does little to me obviously. Except the part on what we lack and should do which is still so damn hard to convince people is the solution. People in France care so much more on raising their kids, having good friends, living somewhere fun or interesting, having time away from work than they forget us the little busy bees who have to pay for all that. I gave up after 3 years of w…

Sorry, but I'm having a hard time sympathising with you rather than the people spending time with their friends and family and enjoying life. Life is not a purgatory unless you believe there is an afterlife, which many people do not. You are free to derive joy from hard work or whatever, but do not think yourself better than those who do not share your priorities.

the point he's probably trying to convey is that lifestyle is subsidized by the rest who aren't and wouldn't be possible otherwise.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#94

Post by CryptoPunk »

Europe is stagnating for the same reason the US is: the rise of social democracy.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-spending-oecd-long...

There is a strong negative correlation between the size of government, as a percentage of GDP, and the rate of economic growth:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170821004405/http://ime.bg/upl...

The data shows that the Scandinavian region, which is the poster child for social democracy, has suffered for it, in being surpassed by low-tax Hong Kong and Singapore in life expectancy, despite the latter coming from a position way behind them in the 1960s, and this is a result of the Scandinavian region's stagnation versus less social democratic economies:

http://iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/San...

• Scandinavia is often cited as having high life expectancy and good health outcomes in areas such as infant mortality. Again, this predates the expansion of the welfare state. In 1960, Norway had the highest life expectancy in the OECD, followed by Sweden, Iceland and Denmark in third, fourth and fifth positions. By 2005, the gap in life expectancy between Scandinavian countries and both the UK and the US had shrunk considerably. Iceland, with a moderately sized welfare sector, has over time outpaced the four major Scandinavian countries in terms of life expectancy and infant mortality.

• Scandinavia’s more equal societies also developed well before the welfare states expanded. Income inequality reduced dramatically during the last three decades of the 19th century and during the first half of the 20th century. Indeed, most of the shift towards greater equality happened before the introduction of a large public sector and high taxes.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#95

Post by brainless »

I am from India and for the first 8-10 years of my post-college life I drank all the "glory" reporting of the American style of doing business. I tried doing it myself.

I fell apart, suffered silently for years. Moved to Germany, went through counseling at the end of that period. Learnt that life is a lot more than silly startup games. No matter what anyone tells me, I have seen it myself first hand - I want a happier life, not a fatter paycheck.

The average multi-million $ enterprise company creates CRUD apps and sell them like they are saving humanity. It is just sales all the way down.

I came back to India and started thinking of my life in 10, 20, 30 year terms. I live in a village in the Himalayas and even though I still struggle as I get influenced by the media, I take steps back, look at the gorgeous mountains in front of me and smile.

I am happy, happier than I even have been. I focus on what matters to me - empowering people, open source software, and building a sustainable business. I am never doing the crazy startup life again. Period.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#96

Post by Ericson2314 »

xwolfi wrote: post #27
okareaman wrote: post #9

The opening paragraph: In 1984 a besuited 20-something American executive on a visit to France offered Europeans a few tips for corporate success. Entrepreneurs needed to be given a second chance if they failed and government bureaucrats made for lousy investors, he told a television interviewer. His advice was sage. But European companies ruled the global corporate roost alongside those of America and, occasionally,…

As someone who grew up in Normandy, it does little to me obviously. Except the part on what we lack and should do which is still so damn hard to convince people is the solution. People in France care so much more on raising their kids, having good friends, living somewhere fun or interesting, having time away from work than they forget us the little busy bees who have to pay for all that. I gave up after 3 years of w…

I wish this to be sarcasm. Absolutely grade A if it is.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#97

Post by leesalminen »

everyone wrote: post #66

Wow a place with high quality of life, education, equality, human rights, individual empowerment etc. is also a bad environment for giant terrible corporations. Who'da thunk it.

I’m just an undereducated, naive American who built a CRUD app but I’ve never heard Europe described as valuing individual empowerment.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#98

Post by TMWNN »

oneplane wrote: post #65
238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

On the other hand, people here don't tend to go bankrupt and lose their house, healthcare (ironically) and life (from a social aspect) in general when they don't have a perfect health. They don't have to hide their state of wellbeing from their employer in the hope of not getting fired, and they don't have to worry about living on the street because they don't have a job for a bit. Businesses are fun and all, but in…

>On the other hand, people here don't tend to go bankrupt and lose their house, healthcare (ironically) and life (from a social aspect) in general when they don't have a perfect health

Only 4% of US bankruptcies are because of medical bills https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/0...>. A tipoff that [insert large percentage here] of bankruptcies aren't actually because of medical costs is that only 6% of bankruptcies by those without health insurance are because of that cause. The biggest cause of bankruptcies is lack of income, which health insurance doesn't affect.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#99

Post by Barrin92 »

As usual the article is almost exclusively concerned with market capitalization as an indicator of economic success. Countries like Germany are dominated by small and middle-class, family owned business. 'Big corporate' is indeed more successful in the US or China but it's just one model to manage an economy and I don't think it's that great. One of the most important points is also buried at the end of the article

>"These internal barriers mean Europe has many smaller firms operating at national, not continental, scale. Each country tends to have its own banks, utilities, airlines and supermarkets. (Europe has over 100 mobile operators, compared with a handful in America or China.) These lack the economies of scale and opportunities to grow quickly enjoyed by firms plying the American or Chinese markets."

Europe has no homogeneous consumer market for tech giants like the US or China which can propel tech firms to gigantic size. And honestly I consider this a feature instead of a bug. It seems like profits aside the major other thing they seem to promote is damaging competition, democracy and pushing surveillance. If it was up to me Europe should use the decline of business giants to double down on the idea of the 'Europe of regions'. Small, diverse and robust business that does well on international markets, pays attention to its stakeholders rather than just shareholders, and does not just pursue growth blindly.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#100

Post by systemvoltage »

brainless wrote: post #95

I am from India and for the first 8-10 years of my post-college life I drank all the "glory" reporting of the American style of doing business. I tried doing it myself. I fell apart, suffered silently for years. Moved to Germany, went through counseling at the end of that period. Learnt that life is a lot more than silly startup games. No matter what anyone tells me, I have seen it myself first hand - I want a happie…

I am sorry you had such an experience. Startup life has pros and cons, and situationally varied. I've worked on several startup ventures of my own and nothing in the world is more satisfying than "skin in the game". It feels real and impactful. I didn't work more than 8-10 hours a day. People using your products and gratification of the fact that you/your-team built is so much more real to me. Friendships I've formed in these years are the strongest bonds of my life and have kept me mentally in better state than otherwise toiling in a FAANG job.

> The average multi-million $ enterprise company creates CRUD apps and sell them like they are saving humanity. It is just sales all the way down.

Perhaps, I suggest working on something else other than CRUD apps? That sounds horrible. Startups can vary from Space industry to biotech, from defense to green tech.

> I am happy, happier than I even have been. I focus on what matters to me - empowering people, open source software, and building a sustainable business. I am never doing the crazy startup life again. Period.

Not all startup lives are like this. I guess we have a different definition of startup life. Startups are empowering people, building open source software and building sustainable businesses. Overall, there is a huge spectrum of startups you can work on - from shitty CRUD apps to Boston Dynamics.

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