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Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

ethereumcashflow.com

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Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#111

Post by throwaway_isms »

sherlock_h wrote: post #7

What mostly excites me about Ethereum ist the very vibrant ecosystem of developers and builders around it. You can think of NFTs and DeFi whatever you want, the sheer amount of new applications and innovative ideas on the ethereum blockchain has been mind-boggling. My personal favorite is Sorare, which combines NFT collectibles with fantasy soccer. And sure, right now everything suffers from high gas prices but it lo…

>right now everything suffers from high gas prices but it looks like that might be solved over the next 12 months

High gas prices are solved, its just no one really seems to understand or care about the technology.

Just as example, it might cost somewhere between $50-$80 in gas to use OpenSea's "free" NFT minting smart contract. But instead you can already use an L2 solution like Polygon(Matic). I minted 1,000,000 NFTs on Polygon(Matic) just to experiment and the total gas for all 1,000,000 NFTs was less the $0.01 (I think it was $0.00018xxx) and this has the double benefit of buyers normally having to pay the same $50-80 gas fees for an NFT on Ethereum Mainnet to only pay fractions of a cent. OpenSea even has a Polygon(Matic) Beta Marketplace, but funny story maybe after 1hour after my 1,000,000 NFTs were minted I listed them for sale and OpenSea took down the Beta for maintenance for a few hours and when it went back up they removed my NFT and listing entirely from the Marketplace lol.

Enjin is another interesting platform, which I'll begin to experiment with as well because it has built in staking and burning features, but until they adopt a side chain I think it will suffer from the same high gas fees.

Point is the actual tech is there, but it really seems all about the money not the tech, and that's why people are paying high gas fees.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#112

Post by tim333 »

cryptica wrote: post #80

It's disturbing how tribalism is allowing people to completely ignore reality. Ethereum's blockchain uses up over 1 terrabyte of space. Because Ethereum nodes do not provide any search feature natively, most third-party software integrations end up being implemented via the use of centralized services (which defeats the whole purpose of Ethereum). As for Bitcoin using the same amount of electricity as an entire count…

>Ethereum's blockchain uses up over 1 terrabyte

Presumably any currency that records all the world's transactions is going to have terabytes if not petabytes of data. Either you go with a tech that will support big data or you limit the transactions like bitcoin making it impractical as an everyday payment mechanism?

For me the important part of decentralized is it can be run in different places so governments can't shut it down, not that everyone can process the world's transactions on their laptop.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#113

Post by nmfisher »

throwaway_isms wrote: post #89
lottin wrote: post #10

The fact that something is scarce doesn't make it a store of value. Scarce simply means is in short supply, but prices aren't determined by supply alone, they are determined by supply and demand. Moreover, if an asset is in fixed supply, then its price is determined entirely by the demand. This means such an asset will only be a store of value if the demand for the asset remains strong over a long period of time, whi…

The money behind big tech has mastered manipulating demand and that is exactly what you are seeing in the Ethereum/NFT ecosystem. It is one giant fraud bankrolled by unlimited capital that can artificially increase prices at which point there becomes demand from people in fear of missing out, once the early capital has the suckers locked in the prices plateau at first as the capital stops buying and driving the price…

I struggle to have any sympathy for "the little guy".

Noone's lying to them, noone's defrauding them, noone's stealing anything or embezzling from them.

It's just greed, plain and simple. If you pile into a get-rich-quick scheme but end up holding the bag in, then more fool you.

I still think it should probably be regulated to prevent idiots from losing their life savings. But I won't pretend the losers are ethically any different from the winners. No matter whether you're early or late to the party, you're all just hucksters looking for a quick buck from a pump-and-dump.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#114

Post by tim333 »

inter_netuser wrote: post #45
manfredz wrote: post #18

If there is a promise of future cash flows from transaction fees that is dependent on new holders, doesn’t that make it a pyramid, ponzi or MLM scheme?

It is just inflation of money supply, same as with fiat currencies.

>It's fiat 2.0, but with emojis.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#115

Post by cryptica »

tim333 wrote: post #112
cryptica wrote: post #80

It's disturbing how tribalism is allowing people to completely ignore reality. Ethereum's blockchain uses up over 1 terrabyte of space. Because Ethereum nodes do not provide any search feature natively, most third-party software integrations end up being implemented via the use of centralized services (which defeats the whole purpose of Ethereum). As for Bitcoin using the same amount of electricity as an entire count…

>Ethereum's blockchain uses up over 1 terrabyte Presumably any currency that records all the world's transactions is going to have terabytes if not petabytes of data. Either you go with a tech that will support big data or you limit the transactions like bitcoin making it impractical as an everyday payment mechanism? For me the important part of decentralized is it can be run in different places so governments can't…

Why should it be a single world currency? Why not just have a system of multiple currencies which can be accepted interchangeably as payment? Automatic valuation and conversion of a cryptocurrency is possible. It can even be done in a decentralized way without trusting anyone.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#116

Post by inter_netuser »

tim333 wrote: post #114
inter_netuser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is just inflation of money supply, same as with fiat currencies.

>It's fiat 2.0, but with emojis. You say that like it's a bad thing.

Ha! emojis are great, sure.

I'm just not sure there is any real innovation here, it all seems to be rather circular.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#117

Post by ArtTimeInvestor »

lottin wrote: post #101
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're comparing a risk-free rate (government bonds) > with a rate on risky investments. I don't think so. What is the "risky investment" here? I compared lending of different currencies. In the case of Euros or Dollars, the lender is a government. In the case of crypto, the lender is a smart contract. Both are assumed to be reliable.

> What is the "risky investment" here? Well, you tell me. Where do the profits come from? > In the case of crypto, the lender is a smart contract. That doesn't make sense. The smart contract is a contract, that is, an agreement between two or more parties. An agreement is not a lender. The lender is one of the parties.

> The lender is one of the parties

The "parties" do not know each other. And it does not matter who put the contract up, who put assets in and who borrowed assets from the contract.

Because everything is in the smart contract. Even the assets. Are you aware that Ethereum contracts hold assets?

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#118

Post by lottin »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #84
bidirectional wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last resort of the US, UK, etc. governments is to print money if they really want to avoid defaulting on their debt. Can smart contracts print money? Surely there must be some way for the counterparty in the contract to default.

"Defaulting" in crypto means the collateral goes from the borrower to the lender. The collateral is always more valuable than the borrowed asset. Otherwise, all borrowers would "default" all the time. As there is no other downside to it than to lose your collateral.

So, the borrower starts with X BTC. They post X BTC as collateral and borrow X-y BTC (where y > 0). Once the loan is paid off, they get the collateral back. This means they end up with X BTC minus the interest paid on X-y. Why would anyone do that?

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#119

Post by ArtTimeInvestor »

kristjansson wrote: post #95
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like this? 0: Holder has ETH 1: Holder borrows Tether, provieds ETH as collateral 2: Holder uses Tether to buy a house 3: Holder borrows Dollar, provides house as collateral 4: Holder buys Tether with Dollar 5: Holder pays back Tether, gets back ETH. 6: Holder now has ETH + House + Dollar Dept If so, why couldn't they lend the dollars to buy the house in the first place? The bank which lends the dollars certainly cou…

Rates are lower on margin loan, and they’re easier to get compared to a proper mortgage (assuming, you know, you have value assets to borrow against)

You say a bank loans money to someone who owns a certain house, but not to someone who uses the money to buy the exact same house?

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#120

Post by inter_netuser »

cryptica wrote: post #87
asjdflakjsdf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum is quite exciting in that regard, but my feeling is that most eth enthusiasts don't actually care about that. They only care about the value and thus it has become another crypto pyramid scheme for now. The only crypto community who has shown any genuine effort in creating a "currency" is Dogecoin. And that is mainly because they are more aware that their coin has no value without real adoption. But sadly, e…

There is no doubt that it's a pyramid scheme. Everything is a pyramid scheme these days including the entire stock market (especially big tech). But the modern monetary system is designed to sustain such pyramid schemes. It can keep them going forever. No matter how much net value they destroy; it will offload the costs to fiat salary earners who accept fiat currencies. TBH I'm confused how the world economy is able…

Sooner or later it will have to end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsky_moment

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