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Why the United States has the best research universities

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Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#111

Post by meroes »

User23 wrote: post #11
aborsy wrote: post #2

Research focus in US and EU seems a bit different. Europe produces a lot of high quality science. Research in US is on the other hand increasingly application-focused (something that EU is not very good at). This is my observation as a former researcher who has experience in both regions; I don’t have references. It’s partly driven by culture, and economic system. The strong public system in Europe supports longer te…

I've noticed EU CS grads are on average much stronger scientifically than US ones. With notable exceptions, the typical US undergraduate curriculum is more of a trade school. That’s fine of course, but definitely not the skillset needed for novel research or even properly applying recent research. Edit: Apparently I’ve struck a nerve. But this has been my experience working and hiring at two of the FAANGs. The teams…

I had the complete opposite impression with compspci grads I met in Germany. For undergrad they had a lot of diverse job skills, opposite for US

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#112

Post by barry-cotter »

User23 wrote: post #11
aborsy wrote: post #2

Research focus in US and EU seems a bit different. Europe produces a lot of high quality science. Research in US is on the other hand increasingly application-focused (something that EU is not very good at). This is my observation as a former researcher who has experience in both regions; I don’t have references. It’s partly driven by culture, and economic system. The strong public system in Europe supports longer te…

I've noticed EU CS grads are on average much stronger scientifically than US ones. With notable exceptions, the typical US undergraduate curriculum is more of a trade school. That’s fine of course, but definitely not the skillset needed for novel research or even properly applying recent research. Edit: Apparently I’ve struck a nerve. But this has been my experience working and hiring at two of the FAANGs. The teams…

> The United States trains the best computer graduates ― by far: We find that CS seniors in the United States substantially outperform seniors in China, India, and Russia. The average computer science student in the United States ranks higher than about 80 percent of students tested in China, India, and Russia. Seniors in elite institutions in the United States similarly outperform seniors in elite institutions in China, India, and Russia by approximately 0.85 Standard Deviations (SDs). Importantly, the skills advantage of the United States is not because it has a large proportion of high-scoring international students.

https://blogs.worldbank.org/education/who-trains-best-comput...

Original paper

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/03/12/1814646116

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#114

Post by mkoubaa »

1helloworld1 wrote: post #19

American universities attract the best students from all over the world. For example - at Tandon School of Engineering about 80 percent of graduate students hail from foreign countries - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american... American academic STEM research is sustained by the constant flow of the best students from all over the world who are willing to spend 12 hours a day for 4-6 years for…

For some of them it's motivated by a hope for a path to citizenship

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#115

Post by joe_the_user »

1helloworld1 wrote: post #19

American universities attract the best students from all over the world. For example - at Tandon School of Engineering about 80 percent of graduate students hail from foreign countries - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american... American academic STEM research is sustained by the constant flow of the best students from all over the world who are willing to spend 12 hours a day for 4-6 years for…

Your point is the most salient of the comments imo. And better than the self-congratulatory article.

US science benefited from a huge influx of European scientists and then sustained itself with large scale grants motivated by the cold war.

The US doesn't have great academic freedom but reasonable academic freedom compared to many places and US achievement is the gold standard for many things in many places so a lot of the best people come here and indeed, sacrifice to be here even as lots of money flows into universities - allowing that money to be effective even when some portion flows into pork also.

It's paradoxical which allows things to seem "better than ever" and "worse than ever" simultaneously.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#116

Post by barry-cotter »

chestertn wrote: post #84
ur-whale wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because they have the most money. Agree, but then you've got to dig deeper: where does the money come from?

Historical reasons. Europe was wrecked in WW1 and WW2.

South Korea and Germany was a bombed out hellscape at the end of the Korean War and it’s rich now. Singapore and Hong Kong were also lacking in capital per capita. More importantly it’s been over 70 years. At the end of the war Silicon Valley was at best in embryo. Taiwan’s semiconductor industry did not exist.

“Historical reasons” is weaksauce if you can’t actually say what they are.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#117

Post by rossdavidh »

So, the ascent of U.S. universities to high status on a worldwide scale, happened in the first half of the 20th century really. Why? Well, because Europe was tearing itself apart in two world wars, and the U.S. sat out the first half of both of those, while receiving a lot of talent fleeing those wars. If you have the money, and the former top-of-the-heap has bombed their wealth into rubble, it doesn't require any magic formula to use that money to get top notch research talent. I don't think any of the rest of what he discusses is necessary to explain this.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#119

Post by amelius »

aborsy wrote: post #2

Research focus in US and EU seems a bit different. Europe produces a lot of high quality science. Research in US is on the other hand increasingly application-focused (something that EU is not very good at). This is my observation as a former researcher who has experience in both regions; I don’t have references. It’s partly driven by culture, and economic system. The strong public system in Europe supports longer te…

> application-focused (something that EU is not very good at)

Probably because of the investor climate, and applied research is a good fit for companies.

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