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Why the United States has the best research universities

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Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#81
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exception:INRIA.

I searched for INRIA success stories. I found the MLdonkey peer-to-peer client written in OCaml. (I do remember using it many years ago. It was odd.) Where are the successful, world-changing company spinoffs?

Ok, that's the wrong measure. But didn't they sponsor basically the whole OCaml compiler, which has gone on to be hugely influential?

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#82
post #14

Lets not fool ourselves. First and foremost the money is here and the business environment (capitalism) is the most favorable than any other region of the world.

It hasn’t always been this way. Prior to the 1900s the wealth was outside the US. Capitalism existed in the world before the US, possibly in more extreme forms. It seems like you’re discounting the possibility the US education system & government contributed to the current economic situation. To what do you attribute the change?

> To what do you attribute the change?

Socialist tendencies in the EU are a 20th century thing.

Europe was far more capitalist in the 18th and 19th century.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#83
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I searched for INRIA success stories. I found the MLdonkey peer-to-peer client written in OCaml. (I do remember using it many years ago. It was odd.) Where are the successful, world-changing company spinoffs?

Ok, that's the wrong measure. But didn't they sponsor basically the whole OCaml compiler, which has gone on to be hugely influential?

> Ok, that's the wrong measure.

Is it though? I guess that's the difference between Europe and US in CS. In the US they find a way to make money on the innovations.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deleted

considering how most[1] of the best scientists from most countries eventually immigrate to the US, the reverse is true 1. Probably, based on nobel prizes https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/19646.jpeg

"Most" is an exaggeration. But many? Yes. In a survey of scientists from 16 countries (http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/tech-careers/the-global-bra... ), the US is the top destination from 13 of the 15 others and the #2 choice from the other two. If you are a Canadian scientist, there is a 16% chance (https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the... ) that you will move to the US. That's not "16% of all Canadian scientists that move out of the country move to the US". Let me repeat: *16% of all Canadian scientists move to the US.* They're also likely to be among the top Canadian scientists, too.

By comparison, 5% of all American scientists move to another country, of which 32% go to Canada, so about 1.6-1.7% total. Since the US has nine times more people, that means that in absolute numbers the 1.7% of American scientists is about equal to the 16% of Canadian scientists, but there is no reason to think that the 1.7% makes up the top tier of American scientists; why would the best move north of the border? In other words, the US is receiving the best of Canadian scientists in exchange for an equal number of its non-best.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#86
In a survey of scientists from 16 countries (http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/tech-careers/the-global-bra... ), the US is the top destination from 13 of the 15 others and the #2 choice from the other two. If you are a Canadian scientist, there is a 16% chance (https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/37lgxg/the... ) that you will move to the US. That's not "16% of all Canadian scientists that move out of the country move to the US". Let me repeat: *16% of all Canadian scientists move to the US.* They're also likely to be among the top Canadian scientists, too.

By comparison, 5% of all American scientists move to another country, of which 32% go to Canada, so about 1.6-1.7% total. Since the US has nine times more people, that means that in absolute numbers the 1.7% of American scientists is about equal to the 16% of Canadian scientists, but there is no reason to think that the 1.7% makes up the top tier of American scientists; why would the best move north of the border? In other words, the US is receiving the best of Canadian scientists in exchange for an equal number of its non-best.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deleted

considering how most[1] of the best scientists from most countries eventually immigrate to the US, the reverse is true 1. Probably, based on nobel prizes https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/19646.jpeg

Normalised for population, Switzerland blows the competition out of the water. The Swiss have twice the Nobel laureates per capita than the US, 2.5 times more than the Uk, seven times more than Germany.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#88
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that's the wrong measure. But didn't they sponsor basically the whole OCaml compiler, which has gone on to be hugely influential?

> Ok, that's the wrong measure. Is it though? I guess that's the difference between Europe and US in CS. In the US they find a way to make money on the innovations.

Yes, it is wrong. Financial success is only one proxy for impact, and not an especially good one in my view. Lots of things that really maybe the world better will make no money, and in fact reduce a lot of companies' incomes by making purchases unnecessary. Open source software is a prime example.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#89
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that's the wrong measure. But didn't they sponsor basically the whole OCaml compiler, which has gone on to be hugely influential?

> Ok, that's the wrong measure. Is it though? I guess that's the difference between Europe and US in CS. In the US they find a way to make money on the innovations.

Whereas in Europe university driven innovations are often placed in the public domain, especially in France. What is better for society? Depends on the viewpoint I guess.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#90
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, that's the wrong measure. Is it though? I guess that's the difference between Europe and US in CS. In the US they find a way to make money on the innovations.

Whereas in Europe university driven innovations are often placed in the public domain, especially in France. What is better for society? Depends on the viewpoint I guess.

Now pause to think about how e.g. France has made the EU spend many, many billions to create a search engine that can replace Google? (Unlikely.)
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