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Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

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Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#111

Post by randmeerkat »

jcims wrote: post #52
m0llusk wrote: post #25

Venture capital is only involved with a fraction of development in Silicon Valley. It may be a large and very loud fraction, but it is still just a fraction. On top of that these well known attention getting firms are just another fraction of the whole. Again, very large and loud, but still just a component. Just to call out one potentially interesting exception, much medical device development goes on in Silicon Val…

Quite a bit of Chinese investment though, no? Different thing entirely but may be of interest to some.

I thought Chinese investment significantly tapered off a few years ago.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#112

Post by 74d-fe6-2c6 »

74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #51
sillysaurusx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure HN is the place for this, but it's not exactly up to me. Calling a country "Middle Eastern North Korea" in the first sentence isn't really conducive to a nice intellectual discussion on the merits of taking Saudi investment though. I guess what rubs me the wrong way about this is that it's very easy to write an incendiary toplevel comment. The story was posted about 35 minutes ago. Looking over the other…

> isn't really conducive to a nice intellectual discussion on the merits of taking Saudi investment though. "nice intellectual discussion" my ass ... LOL fuck the Saudis and their money

who downvotes my comment thinks it is okay to suppress women, criminalize homosexuality, cause famines in Yemen, finance global terrorism or fillet journalists.

I take those downvotes with pride :)

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#113

Post by ianhawes »

pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

The problem is you need to rectify “MBS had a journalist assassinated” with “The US should stop meddling in the affairs of sovereign nations”.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#114

Post by chmod775 »

ianai wrote: post #105
pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

Well Biden did say he was going to direct companies to increase semiconductor production. He says critical components need to be identified as a national security concern. A similar effort could be introduced here. Identify what Arabia provides that’s so critical and introduce alternatives as a national security effort.

> Identify what Arabia provides that’s so critical

Lots of oil. And money. Mostly oil.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#116

Post by baybal2 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #101
baybal2 wrote: post #27

American relationship with "Middle Eastern North Korea" must be destroyed, severed, set on fire, and beshamed. Along with Guatanamo base, it's the biggest stain on US credibility in international relations. In other words, US can't dictate its allies who can they make friends with without taking the prickly subject of Saudi Arabia, and its chainsaw prince off the table.

>American relationship with "Middle Eastern North Korea" must be destroyed, Extrapolate that out for half a second please. When the US, the west etc. cuts ties then the KSAs of the world get driven to the arms of Russia and China and other people who will happily do business with them no matter how many journalists they dice up. Ok, so you get the Russias and Chinas and all those other people to cut pretty much all b…

> When the US, the west etc. cuts ties then the KSAs of the world get driven to the arms of Russia and China and other people who will happily do business with them no matter how many journalists they dice up.

This political opinion must be subject to the most severe censure, as is the moral character of people who can come with such an idea.

FISRT, it's untrue, and dishonest.

The world is already driven by Russia's and China's protection racket no matter how many journalists America's rogue state allies dice up.

Adherence, or non-adherence to American military aid makes ZERO DIFFERENCE to that. In fact, there are now more receivers of American military aid in Chinese, and Russian pocket than ones who aren't. In other words, the net effect of US military aid is the benefit of allies, and satellites of Russia, and China. This makes no sense.

SECOND, you lose allies by supporting rogue regimes for reasons ethical, or not.

Saudis are a piece of red cloth to every moderately sane regimes, and states in the region. They know Saudis are an intrusive force which does not stop at staging palace coups, and activity by secret agents to keep the whole Arab world under a thumb. Saudis tried to staged coups, and send clandestine agents to topple both democratic, or not governments of pretty much every Arab country.

THIRD, USA is not impotent at all to influence KSA. USA is fully capable of erasing KSA regime with a flick of a finger with both military, and non-military options on the table.

1/3 of KSA population will raise in arms the second it's given such opportunity. Economic sanctions on oil, and foreign assets will nuke KSA treasury, and lead to regime fall in at maximum of 2 years. USA military contingent in military bases on KSA soil is big enough to topple the KSA military in days.

FOURTH, the new Saudi establishment will be naturally more receptive to US influence than the current one which sploshes moneys on states which are not by an inch friendly to USA. Cutting Saudi moneys to rouge states will instantly solve at least halve of USA's headaches in the region.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#117

Post by ianhawes »

ianai wrote: post #105
pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

Well Biden did say he was going to direct companies to increase semiconductor production. He says critical components need to be identified as a national security concern. A similar effort could be introduced here. Identify what Arabia provides that’s so critical and introduce alternatives as a national security effort.

In the context of tech, KSA has a massive amount of wealth that they’re trying to diversify into other sectors to avoid civil unrest over the next 50 years when oil usage is decreased.

So, don’t take VC money funded by KSA?

It’s not that simple. You may never know where the money you’re accepting is coming from.

While I find the actions of MBS and the assassination to be morally reprehensible, you should be aware that the US has a storied history of extrajudicial assassinations. Further, dissidents who have spoken out against the government in the form of leaking of classified information are routinely jailed for 20 years, which is IMO akin to a death sentence.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#118

Post by pyrophane »

lolbiden wrote: post #108
pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

If you didn't want business as usual and you wanted an Executive who had a record of peace deals in the Middle East and of standing up to China and who likely would have not been kowtowing at this time you should have voted for Trump because that's who he was This is exactly how Biden was always expected to lead. Weak in the Middle East, a new proxy war already in Syria getting started, weak on China. This is what yo…

The Khashoggi murder took place in October of 2018, smack in the middle of Trump's presidency. The CIA had concluded that MBS was responsible as early as November of that year.

Trump's comments on the murder:

“Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event — maybe he did and maybe he didn’t! That being said, we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi. In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.”

Additionally: “Well, will anybody really know?”

That's pretty much all we got from the Trump administration on that point. At the time, the silence was the statement. And at the same time, Jared Kushner was reportedly using WhatsApp to counsel MBS in the situation.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#119

Post by sokoloff »

verall wrote: post #110
sokoloff wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Best” needs to be qualified here. The simplest/fastest way to get money to poor people is to just give it to them. If you do that , what happens that’s good and what happens that’s bad? Another route is to support private employment (what trickle-down seems to be seeking). If you do that , what happens that’s good and what happens that’s bad? Unsurprisingly, people who prefer the government to be more powerful and m…

Trickle down doesn't support private employment, it just enriches wealth holders. Lowering cap gains taxes isn't convincing any new rich people to throw more money in the investment pool, it's just increasing the amount margin that capital can extract. Returns are so low that rich people just throw the money they make back into the market anyways, but now we have a ton of capital anyways chasing little returns, which…

It’s certainly theoretically possible that people generally don’t consider the effects of taxes and after-tax returns in the inter-linked areas of investing, employment, and new business formation activities, but that doesn’t match my own personal experience nor the behavior of others I see making those decisions.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that increasing the amount by which we tax away the prospective rewards of being successful in a business doesn’t have a negative effect on propensity to form new or expand existing businesses.

Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)

#120

Post by simonh »

ianhawes wrote: post #113
pyrophane wrote: post #73

I am not looking forward to the rehabilitation of MBS's image that will take place over the next couple of years. After Khashoggi was killed, some prominent people took a bit of stand and pulled out of the Future Investment Conference. The narrative there was clear: we don't do business with people who murder journalists. So now, the US has essentially confirmed it: yeah, MBS did in fact have that journalist killed.…

The problem is you need to rectify “MBS had a journalist assassinated” with “The US should stop meddling in the affairs of sovereign nations”.

It's hard to square that attitude on non-interference abroad with a killing by Saudi on Turkish soil of a man resident in the US for things he wrote in a US newspaper.
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