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How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

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Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#111
post #66
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still early in my career (around 32, 8 years in), and I can heavily relate to what you said at the beginning. The company I work for recently got acquired and the entire culture changed to one of "fuck the engineers, only contracts matter, engineers are just butts in seats, the more the better (quality not required)". My boss is constantly turned down when he tries to advocate for me, or say that I deserve a slig…

Shit happens, why are you still there?

Honestly, I was lucky enough to negotiate my total compensation around 3 years ago before the acquisition using an offer I had.

So while I'll never see another raise again, I have very decent overall total compensation, especially for the cost of living where I'm at.

The other side of it, is that I have about 3 months of vacation built up. The TLDR on that though is they tried to take it from me about a month ago (carry over policy that I was told I would be exempt from). I told them straight up I would leave that day, so they reneged in the end. But I have no clue how they wouldn't assume I'm going to just take it this year and look for another job.

So my play now is to enjoy the compensation while looking for another job.

I'm also pulling back heavily in my support to the organization, which is tough because I'm not used to putting in less than 110%.

I'm trying to look on the bright side though. I think this experience may have cured me of my tendency to be a workaholic.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#112
post #88

As someone who grew up in extreme poverty (eating ketchup soup made with ketchup packets and hot water, extreme), there are so many ways that poverty affected me, outside of this simple article. The best way I can describe it is that poverty makes you start out life in a giant hole and you're given nothing to help you dig out of that hole to reach the surface where you can then start thriving. I honestly feel that at…

I feel you so much. My parents died or bailed on me as a kid. I spent many years living in a van as an adult. Now that I have a house, just having a shower every day is like the greatest luxury to me. Forget the 4 seasons, Porsches, Rolexes. I lay in the shower for hours sometimes.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.

I've heard this claim before, but I've never seen it substantiated. Would you like to do so?

It's not so much capitalism as much as having good economics. Communism was economically advantageous to serfdom. Capitalism was economically advantageous to communism, which is why China's economy boomed after they started to embrace a market economy.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#114
post #53

This is going to sound egotistical, but it's not intended that way, just the experience of your average prole. The times that I have been the most successful, most motivated, most driven, most productive, and most useful, in study, career, relationships, and life, have tracked exactly with periods in which I've gotten out what I've put in. When I started my career and a company took a chance on me - we absolutely kil…

I can't really blame you, a bad system rewards this kind of individualism, and individualism then feeds into a bad system. In a better world we would consider human beings not as decentralised entities but as one big connected mass, and fixing poverty would actually raise everyone up.

Who controls the bad system now and who controlled the bad system in the past?

Why is it not getting better?

Who keeps getting richer every second, while everyone else stagnates?

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#115

how I imagine (straw) hyper-capitalists think: "why is poverty bad? not because we have empathy for poor people, nah, just because poor people are not being optimally productive worker bees"

Keep in mind capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.

Since it is pretty much the only system used today, that is kind of hard to avoid.

But on a serious note, the command economy of the Soviet Union did surprisingly well despite its profound number of flaws.

Literacy rates, economic output, educational levels, scientific output etc was significantly improved in Soviet times, relative to the Czar area which after all was capitalist.

This all happened despite the fact that:

1. They had a bloody and destructive revolution. 2. Their country got laid to ruins by the German invasion. 3. They had to rebuild the country after WWII with most of the healthiest and youngest members of society dead. Yet they pulled that off surprisingly well.

Yes if you compare Soviet growth to a number of other countries it was not always stellar, but considering that these countries had not received the same kind of devastating blows, it was still quite remarkable.

China is another good example. India and China had the same GDP per capita in the 1940s. China had a destructive Japanese invasion and then a bloody civil war. Then Mao did the crazy cultural revolution setting them back even more.

Despite all this China has 3x the GDP per capita of India. All despite the fact that India had democracy, private property and capitalist enterprises in this whole period.

Even today almost all key industries in China are fully or partially owned by the state. Such as construction, energy, banking etc. Yes China has lots of private enterprise as well. But they got growing rapidly long before these dominated the economy.

No, economy has pulled as many people out of poverty as China, and they did that with what can best be described as hybrid system. The Chinese economic miracle had been ongoing for many years before private property was actually made legal in China.

NOTE: I am not advocating these kinds of system as they are dictatorships. But I think they are worth pondering before people push the truthism that capitalism is so superior as an economic system and that alternatives cannot perform. The evidence seems to suggest that other systems can work and perhaps the best systems are hybrid systems.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusingly, without realising it, your post specifically hits on the reason I'm done with society. It's individualism for me now. Me, my friends, the neighbours. Everyone else, figure it out, I'm not your pawn.

Hence the American Revolution and subsequent Constitution: enough government to keep the basics together, otherwise do whatever you want. ...and occasional civil wars (small and large) reminding leaders to keep it that way.

>...and occasional civil wars (small and large) reminding leaders to keep it that way.

And yet, oddly enough, countries with regular civil unrest tend not to be bastions of civil liberty, but violent mafia-run hellholes.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#118
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still early in my career (around 32, 8 years in), and I can heavily relate to what you said at the beginning. The company I work for recently got acquired and the entire culture changed to one of "fuck the engineers, only contracts matter, engineers are just butts in seats, the more the better (quality not required)". My boss is constantly turned down when he tries to advocate for me, or say that I deserve a slig…

Get out. Now. It won't get better no matter who promises what. If you have one more major vesting date nearby, maybe arrange your departure around that. I left one place where there was literally a line of 6 of us who all resigned one after the other the afternoon when our annual vesting hit our accounts in the morning. I can't imagine the day that Director had hearing the same story from all 6 of us back-to-back.

I hear you, and I appreciate the advice. There is a vesting cycle that's yearly, but ultimately it all depends on them selling them the company a few years from now (2023 or so).

While I fully expect them to sell, I expect them to stab me in the back so hard that the shares are effectively worthless.

I've been learning ruby in my spare time, so hoping to transition to a job that uses that in their stack eventually. I think I'm going to take a long break though, I'm very burnt out from the entire experience.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is mask wearing, temporary social distancing, and vaccination asking too much from the individual to sustain the weakest and most vulnerable in society?

Not at all. Those are the most minor, trivial aspects of what has happened over the last year in the UK, and what continues to happen as we speak. How about we make a trade. I'll wear a mask in situations where others are concerned, take my vaccine, and you may distance from me as much as you'd like. You know, like I am and have been doing for eleven months now. In return - I want my life back. Let's reinstate the de…

I'm curious as to how your opinion has changed during the course of the lockdowns?

I'm tired of it as well, but rather I feel the length of the lockdown is a result of the prevarication that took place in the beginning and a continuing series of poor choices intended to save political face afterwards.

My opinion is that had we locked down hard and early, banning foreign arrivals until the pandemic passed globally, we'd have quickly been able to meet without putting anyone's health at risk and at a lower economic cost.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#120

how I imagine (straw) hyper-capitalists think: "why is poverty bad? not because we have empathy for poor people, nah, just because poor people are not being optimally productive worker bees"

Keep in mind capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.

Can we have a list of systems to choose from?
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