Dear god, Drew has spicy takes but this takes the cake, comparing anti-wayland sentiment to 9/11-truthers is quite the comparison. Not sure I can stomach reading past the first sentence.
I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
111–120 of 892 posts
Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#112I am neither fond of Xorg nor Wayland. I have used both and I see shortcomings of both. Xorg is Overly Bloated/Done without giving much importance to security. On the other hand, Wayland is technically superior , might be more secure than Xorg. But, it's feature parity doesn't match with that of Xorg. Now,i don't think those features must be pushed into Wayland itself. i don't know but something desktop oriented Wayl…
Is there a special privilege or group membership or root or anything required for that screen access API?
Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#113I generally like wayland, and on systems where I can use it, I use it. I'm even writing my own compositor for a side project on embedded hardware because Wayland (the protocols) better defines the roles of parts of the software and has better performance.
Functionally, though, Wayland is still not fully there yet. It's better now than it ever was, but the authors are still punting on major chunks of missing functionality.
> We’re out here trying to make things better. Wayland fixes unfixable problems with X11, and might have invented some new, fixable problems in the process — most of which have been fucking fixed already, and years ago!
Keyboard remapping has been punted on entirely and is still horrifically broken and undefined in the protocol definitions. Despite this, compositors still to this day, use XKB as the basis for keyboard input mapping because there is no standard way of doing this for a compositor. Even wlroots does this. This is a really bad workaround to the problem because XKB itself was an incomplete rewrite of the existing keyboard mapping code in the original X11 server, and even it doesn't work right, which is why Xorg desktops have awful things like ibus.
Full nvidia support is nonexistant except with nouveau, which often doesn't work correctly for basic 2D graphics. Obviously this is out of the hands of the wayland devs, but for a user it is still major functionality that is lost, and pretending that nouveau is an equivalent replacement is problematic -- I've had generic VGA drivers perform better. And "perform better" in this context means "managed to draw a coherent image to my monitor", not "maintain 60fps".
There are other features/problems that have also been punted on (remoting support, but that arguably doesnt belong in the compositor stack) that users actually need in some cases that wayland devs -- probably because of the rush to get rid of Xorg -- have avoided implementing. I get that it is hard, and major kudos for the progress that has been made, but Wayland is definitely not there yet without some coherent answer to these features. I say this as a user and a dev using wlroots.
Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#114Wayland is being treated like PulseAudio and systemd before. So, it will probably win its battle, thanks $DEITY.
That's because all three are similar, all three throw away some of the modular unix philosophy and replace it with a system that gives less power to the user.
I agree that all three are aggressively Linux specific, but let's be real. From a market share perspective Unix is dead. Linux itself threw the Unix philosophy out the window some time ago.
Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#115It’s ironic, seeing this sentiment from this person in particular. My short list of “people who are jerks to free software maintainers” has him at the top.
Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#116> So my new approach is “fuck you”. None of the Wayland detractors have a clue. Mmmmkay. That's a pretty broad statement, good luck with that attitude! > I’ve tried appealing to reason and rationally debunking each lie that some Wayland detractor flavor-of-the-week is touting to tow the party line, but it didn’t work. I guess he's referring to this post? https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de...
> I guess he's referring to this post? https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de ... And to numerous comments on HN and elsewhere. The 'wayland sucks' movement is sooo annoying, even to me and I'm just a happy wayland user and haven't spent any of my free time writing those thousands of lines of code.
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Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#117Sadly the first line of the article started bad, and easily rebuttable, sugesting that if you keep reading, the risky of not learning anything is too high.
Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#118How does Fuchia OS handle screen access and security?
Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#119I understand the frustration, but somewhat related:
I'm dismayed by how much people just categorize everything as 'anti-' or 'hit piece' (when it comes to news) or ... something that implies some sort of extreme bias or conspiracy when it comes to an opinion they don't like these days.
Nobody it seems has a valid point of view, it's so often just some sort of 'propaganda' or something...
Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit
#120> In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you. That does not mean anyone is under an obligation to like it. > Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. If y…
> "well you don't need that anyway!"
Something similar used to frustrate me no end when asking the Python community for help trying to solve a problem.
Regularly someone would comment, "Why would you want to do that?".
I wouldn't be asking if I didn't have a need to do it!
It's bizarre that some people can't see beyond the end of their own nose and imagine different use cases to their own.