Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#111

Post by Vivtek » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:08 PM UTC

ohyes wrote: post #99

tokenadult wrote: post #77

What's more radically different between people who are healthy and people who are not is how much they exercise rather than what they eat. There is much more worldwide cultural variation in what people eat, and much more individual variation within each culture, among healthy people than there is variation in the exercise level of healthy people. But seeking to change diet to change health sounds easier than getting…

What compounds this is that 'healthy' is a particularly ill-defined catchall term. If you are, for example, morbidly obese or horribly malnourished, you probably do need to change your diet. If you get winded going up a flight of stairs, or maybe worried about general physical fitness, you probably want exercise. What is our ideal for a healthy person? An underwear model? someone who lives to 93? I don't know.

A 93-year-old underwear model?

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#112

Post by dhughes » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:08 PM UTC

david_p wrote: post #97

ajscherer wrote: post #79

I'm always surprised at the theories people are willing to believe about obesity, particularly people on hn. It really sounds reasonable to so many of you that the cause of the obesity epidemic is people actually listening to nutrition advice from the medical establishment and following the food pyramid? My view of what has happened is this: technologies and ingredients were invented by food manufacturers over the pa…

While I have to agree with you, your theory fails to explain why people in Europe (who have the same access to calorie dense and convenient food) are less obese (in proportion) than North Americans. I believe that culinary customs AND some additives used in industrial food play an important role. Just check out High Fructose Corn Syrup : this is in very product in the USA and is (almost) never used in Europe.

I'd say "people in Europe" is way too general, I'm sure there are regions such as the UK where obesity is as bad as the US.

I've dealt with vendors from southern France and Western Italy and when they come here they are shocked at portion sizes and how much pop people drink, it's all anyone drinks. Even I see the difference from many years go portions are huge even people are huge, it's hard to find clothing that isn't over-sized and baggy.

Claiming corn syrup is bad meanwhile people drink it morning, noon and night seems to indicate it's equally the fault of a culture that is comfortable with eating so much crap but seeing it as normal then blaming it for their problems.

At work we have a pop machine which up until a few years ago due a provincial law could only dispense glass bottles, all carbonated beverages had to be in a glass container. The glass bottles were about 315ml, then the law changed (because people wanted cans) and the next day the pop machines was stocked with the modern plastic bottle but they were nearly 600ml. The fridge at work was full of half bottles of pop because people couldn't drink their 600ml beverages in one sitting but gradually over the next month or two people adjusted and now drink the entire 600ml in one sitting almost double. HFCS or not who is to blame for that? The person drinking it.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#113

Post by swombat » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:15 PM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #77

What's more radically different between people who are healthy and people who are not is how much they exercise rather than what they eat. There is much more worldwide cultural variation in what people eat, and much more individual variation within each culture, among healthy people than there is variation in the exercise level of healthy people. But seeking to change diet to change health sounds easier than getting…

What makes it all that much more complicated is that diet is, in fact, the best way to lose weight. Losing weight through exercise is incredibly hard and unrewarding (and often unsuccessful), but to keep the weight off after losing it, exercise is essential.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#114

Post by 16s » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:19 PM UTC

weego wrote: post #7

God I remember when everywhere (even in school) was hooked on the "you are killing your kids with butter, eat margarine" line. Of course, then they banned it most sensible places because of the hydrogenated/trans fats. Shocking that something made by chemical process by companies with large sums of money will be heavily advertised and pushed to people over, say, something that can't be patented by any one body. Simil…

You can set margarine out in hot sun all day and it'll will not melt. Once I saw that, I knew I'd never eat it. I'll take butter any day.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#115

Post by yummyfajitas » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:22 PM UTC

Hawramani wrote: post #78

matwood wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. A good criticism of Lustigs demonizing fructose: http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-ab... Key takeaway that Lustig ignores - USDA numbers by the way: Total energy intake in 1970 averaged 2172 kcal. By 2007 this hiked up to 2775 kcal, a 603 kcal increase.

The reasoning in that line shows the classic misunderstanding that has led us here. As Taubes says, saying you get fat because you eat too much doesn't explain anything. Of course you need to eat more calories that you expend to gain weight. But why do people do it, and why didn't they do it before? Taubes says we eat too much because we eat carbs . If people had eaten a carb-free diet since 1970 we wouldn't be seein…

What if we increased carb consumption far above the levels of today (from 43% of our diet to, I dunno, 54%)? Would we be even fatter than we are now?

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnpp.usd...

History tells us the answer. In the early part of the 20'th century, we ate nothing but carbs. We weren't fat.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#116

Post by heyitsnick » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:22 PM UTC

DavidBishop wrote: post #33

People resist the idea because the answer is too simple. "Fats" are better than "Carbs". So lard is better than a banana? Ugh. It's not the broad category of "Fats" vs "Carbs". It's the TYPE of food. Eat good food. Period. Not something made in a factory. Twinkies: out. Soda: out. Standard pizza with refined grains and loads of cheese: out. Eat healthy food: the right meats, fruits, vegetables, whole grains and lots…

> People resist the idea because the answer is too simple. "Fats" are better than "Carbs". So lard is better than a banana? Ugh. > It's not the broad category of "Fats" vs "Carbs". It's the TYPE of food. Eat good food. Period. Not something made in a factory. Twinkies: out. Soda: out. Standard pizza with refined grains and loads of cheese: out

People resist this idea because it is too simple. The reason behind the whole article is trying redefine what "good food" is. The last twenty years we've been told that fatty foods were bad for us, and high-carbonhydrate foods were good for us. That we should have 60%+ of our diets as carbs.

There is now mounting evidence that this is all bad advice.

I know many people now who trim the fat off the meat whilst eating unchecked quantities of pasta because they believe this is what good food is and what 'eating well' means. This is wrong and people need to be re-educated.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#117

Post by Travis » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:25 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #65

joshklein wrote: post #16

I think there are a number of issues: 1 - People relate fat the nutrient to fat the body type because they share the word "fat". Not much to do there. In high school I was taught that carbohydrates were "energy" and fat was "waste". People should probably be taught the right way our biological systems operate. 2 - Medical authorities have worked with the best science they had available at the time, and are almost alw…

"People relate fat the nutrient to fat the body type because they share the word 'fat'." That's like when people think that alcohol makes you depressed because it's a depressant.

To be fair, alcohol (ab)use is highly correlated with depression symptoms. The nervous system depression, however, is not necessarily the same mechanism that causes psychological depression. (lots of available articles on alcohol and depression, e.g., http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=alcohol%20depression)

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#118

Post by terio » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:29 PM UTC

beaumartinez wrote: post #24

forensic wrote: post #14

The "fat is evil" thing that happened in the latter half of the 20th century is going to go down as the biggest scientific fuck up ever. The very people who were given all the authority and trust, and who were supposed to protect human life, actively killed people by pushing carbs as healthy and fats as unhealthy. They directly caused spiking obesity, the #1 medical issue in our society. Repeat after me: The biggest…

(I don't want to split hairs, but "carbs" aren't to blame, simple sugars are, especially in sodas, confectionary, et cetera.) > Millions and millions of people have died because they followed the advice of the scientific authorities. Because of a poor diet? Maybe; diet is only one side of this. People who die of heart disease are normally very unfit. As easy as it is to blame the scientific authorities, they should h…

Diet is has far more weight in weight (pun intended) than exercise. Just by exercising it is almost impossible to loose weight.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#119

Post by Florin_Andrei » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:30 PM UTC

"Fat is worse than carbs" is a very successful meme because it passes a superficial "evidence-checking": it's fat, so it's gotta make me more fat, right? A mechanistic, false-newtonian, 17th century understanding of biology. A fallacy of common sense.

Plus, it's been touted all over the place for decades. Of course it catches on.

Keep calories in general low, paying special attention to carbs. Don't forget to lift some weights. Feel free to do other types of exercise if you wish. Voila, instant fat management.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#120

Post by potatolicious » Fri, May 20, 2011, 4:30 PM UTC

adw wrote: post #107

david_p wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have to agree with you, your theory fails to explain why people in Europe (who have the same access to calorie dense and convenient food) are less obese (in proportion) than North Americans. I believe that culinary customs AND some additives used in industrial food play an important role. Just check out High Fructose Corn Syrup : this is in very product in the USA and is (almost) never used in Europe.

Your portions are bigger. (Seriously.)

This is the absolute core of the problem.

I'm a Canadian currently living in the US; our two countries are culturally very similar, and diet-wise practically identical (save poutine, sweet sweet poutine). But the obesity epidemic hasn't swept Canada nearly the same way it is commonly seen in the US.

I just got back from a trip to Canada, and I can say with absolute confidence that the typical restaurant dish in the US is more than twice the size it is up north.

It's this way in Asia too, and probably Europe (though I haven't been, shame).

It doesn't matter how much you exercise (or don't), nor does it matter if you're eating steaks vs. granola bars. If you're eating twice as much as the rest of the world, you've got big problems.

The US needs to halve their serving sizes in restaurants, and reduce the appetite of the general population. You can improve what you're eating, and you can exercise more, but none of that will do diddly squat until you cut down on intake.