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CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

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Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#111

Post by shadowgovt »

yurielt wrote: post #69
1cvmask wrote: post #11

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” ― Joseph Heller

After Assange and h Snowden is pretty clear nobody is paranoid the documents are out there the NSA has a system where they monitor people inside and outside the United States the real question is what do you do when they are after everyone

Statistically speaking, they are after hardly anyone.

But they have an obvious vested interest in having sufficient data to track the motions of anyone, because they can't know a-priori who is involved in an activity harmful to the interests of the United States of America until they have evidence an activity has happened or will happen and need to begin connecting the dots to identify the pattern.

You can't connect dots you don't have. Most of the NSA's behavior can be understood as maximizing their dots.

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#112

Post by eli »

StavrosK wrote: post #62
eli wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is being asked routine questions at the border is not necessarily a sign that the CIA is following you

But it looks like if the CIA is following you you will be asked routine questions at the border.

That is the nature of something being routine.

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#113

Post by shadowgovt »

px43 wrote: post #47
jasonvorhe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss that WikiLeaks met with Trump campaign staff that had close relations with russian secret services and then leaked DNC campaign mails so that right wing actors could make that into a pedophile pizza place conspiracy theory? I used to be a big WikiLeaks supporter but these days are long gone. They promised leaks on russian oligarchs that never happened. They promised to "bring down" Bank of America. They…

The BOA leak, and several others, got burned by that Daniel Dumbshit guy over some petty personal disputes on how Wikileaks was run. That's what the Benedict Cumberbatch movie was all about, told from the perspective of the shithead who wiped all that data. Wikileaks had an image of a Bank of America VP laptop with email discussion about the creation and exploitation of predatory loans, and a complete indifference to…

> Wikileaks had an image of a Bank of America VP laptop with email discussion about the creation and exploitation of predatory loans, and a complete indifference to the eventual 2008 crash that they knew it would cause.

How do we know this is true if the data was burned?

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#114

Post by [deleted] »

jason0597 wrote: post #67
Fnoord wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always got these questions when I went via Eurotunnel to UK, but never got asked any questions when I left UK via the same transport (and I'm Dutch, not French). I found it very peculiar, given I remained within EU at such times. Now with Brexit, I feel like "whatever".

That doesn't make any sense. I'm from Greece and I've travelled to the UK many times from Greece. I've never been interrogated at the UK border. (bar Brexit)

[deleted]

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#115

Post by shadowgovt »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #64
jasonvorhe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss that WikiLeaks met with Trump campaign staff that had close relations with russian secret services and then leaked DNC campaign mails so that right wing actors could make that into a pedophile pizza place conspiracy theory? I used to be a big WikiLeaks supporter but these days are long gone. They promised leaks on russian oligarchs that never happened. They promised to "bring down" Bank of America. They…

> I used to be a big WikiLeaks supporter but these days are long gone. Then you've been duped. The prosecution of Assange is based on his work with Chelsea Manning on US war crimes in Iraq. But if the lives of poor brown people far away are not as important as cheap partizanship then the CIA can make you believe anything. Not to mention the fact HRC called for the assassination of Assange and his treatment has been c…

The Manning leaks were hugely irresponsible. While whistleblowing is a vital activity, the data dumps Manning pulled from the military network and State Department were unredacted raw dumps. They catalyzed Arab Spring by pushing the delicate realm of international diplomacy into the eyes of the public, leading to hundreds of deaths and, fundamentally, no real change. Possibly setting back democracy in the Middle East by a generation or so.

I like Manning as a person, but state secrets exist for a reason and she deserved to be imprisoned for her crimes.

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#116

Post by shadowgovt »

evgen wrote: post #95
AsyncAwait wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to be a big WikiLeaks supporter but these days are long gone. Then you've been duped. The prosecution of Assange is based on his work with Chelsea Manning on US war crimes in Iraq. But if the lives of poor brown people far away are not as important as cheap partizanship then the CIA can make you believe anything. Not to mention the fact HRC called for the assassination of Assange and his treatment has been c…

The only dupes at this point are the useful idiots who still support WikiLeaks. It has long since passed from being anything useful into being an cult of personality built around Assange.

I'd call it halfway between cult of personality and idealistic belief that maximizing free flow of information maximizes beneficial outcomes without attention to measuring whether that assumption is true.

It turns out some secrets are harmful, and some are helpful to the stable function of a society. Practically speaking, I believe it is hard to make a case that Wikileaks has been a net positive, unless one can see a president Trump as part of a net positive story. On the flip side, history is also dotted with obvious examples of secret keeping resulting in long-term damage.

The truth, I think, is that the beneficial nature of secrets is something you can only evaluate situationally.

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#117

Post by tehjoker »

Kalium wrote: post #107
gruez wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They aren't interested in the answer, they're interested in whether you have a ready answer and don't sound evasive. It doesn't seem too hard to remember the answers to four questions and practice it beforehand.

You're absolutely right, it doesn't seem difficult at all. That said, have you ever had stage fright? It's pretty common. Practice often seems to melt away when an actual performance is at hand. With that in mind, it's perhaps not unreasonable to think that this particular bar - quite low as you rightly and wisely point out it seems to be - will trip up no few liars at scale.

If you've ever been low on coffee and have a brain fart you get harassed too.

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#118

Post by tehjoker »

CyanBird wrote: post #42
powerapple wrote: post #7

I am afraid the real world journalists don't care too much about Wikileak. I am afraid that's how I feel this way. To me, Wikileak is the real meat journalists, no speculation, no opinion, just information, data for people to process. But we don't want it, we want to read tldr;, one sentence is something I am interested to read about a topic. Journalists know that, they rather publish unchecked facts, as long as it g…

You would benefit a fair amount of reading Manufacturing Consent and Propaganda 1927 if you haven't, they will provide you with tools to verbalize your ideas and learn to better differentiate the media landscape

Manufacturing Consent (there's a documentary form of it too) changed my entire outlook on media. Highly recommend.

Short vid based on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34LGPIXvU5M

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#119

Post by tremon »

woodruffw wrote: post #105
for_i_in_range wrote: post #99

He makes an important point early on in outlining the mission of Wikileaks centering on making Data and Information freely accessible to all (the concept of Dataism, for those who have read Yuval Harrari’s HOMO DEUS ). However, the processing of Information into Intelligence that can be acted upon is what characterizes Intelligence agencies. Wikileaks does not concern itself with this phase. Yet, the CIA’s Pompeo is…

I'm normally loathe to defend any aspect of the US MIC, but I think Pompeo's point is that Wikileaks knowingly publicizes information that has already been processed into Intelligence , and willfully turns a blind eye to its role as a laundromat for hostile powers under the guise of an ideology of totally free data. I, for one, think that all information should be free. I think Pompeo's motivations are suspect and ge…

chiefly benefits powers whose long term vision is the decline of liberal democracy.

...by exposing the hypocrisy of said liberal democracies. What good is a liberal democracy when the demos remains oblivious of the negative aspects what the cracy is doing?

If things like the collateral murder videos, or the treatment of Manning and Snowden are the work of said "liberal democracies", then I'm fully in the camp that wants to decline them, and replace them with better, more transparent, more accountable structures.

Re: CIA vs. Wikileaks [video]

#120

Post by rmrfstar »

woodruffw wrote: post #105
for_i_in_range wrote: post #99

He makes an important point early on in outlining the mission of Wikileaks centering on making Data and Information freely accessible to all (the concept of Dataism, for those who have read Yuval Harrari’s HOMO DEUS ). However, the processing of Information into Intelligence that can be acted upon is what characterizes Intelligence agencies. Wikileaks does not concern itself with this phase. Yet, the CIA’s Pompeo is…

I'm normally loathe to defend any aspect of the US MIC, but I think Pompeo's point is that Wikileaks knowingly publicizes information that has already been processed into Intelligence , and willfully turns a blind eye to its role as a laundromat for hostile powers under the guise of an ideology of totally free data. I, for one, think that all information should be free. I think Pompeo's motivations are suspect and ge…

The primary threat to "liberal democracy" is CIA, DHS, MI5, and MI6. It is not SVR or MSS. This has been true since the Cold War. Who did more harm to "liberal democracy", J. Edgar Hoover (who tried to extort MLK into suicide), or KGB?
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