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Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

workmanlayout.org

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Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#111

Post by lawn »

resu_nimda wrote: post #79

Keyboard layouts are incredibly fascinating. For the amount of typing that is done today it feels like we are collectively still in the Dark Ages of textual input. A while ago on HN there was link to a talk from a stenographer (the people who do court reporting and other live transcription). They achieve the highest WPM by using a smaller keyboard and pressing "chords" of multiple keys at the same time, which map to…

I think it's possible to take this idea and use it for us programmers, without going full stenographer.

For example you could map j + k to send escape, which would be very useful for a vim user. Or have other symbols easily reachable, without having to resort to layer modifiers.

Here's a blog post if this interests you: https://blog.gboards.ca/2020/01/weird-keyboards-programmable...

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#112

Post by Symbiote »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #86

DON'T DO IT* I absolutely love Workman. It's gorgeous. I spent months learning it, getting fast with it. I even got the supercool matrix style keyboard, I was so into it. But now I use QWERTY, and I sold my matrix style keyboard. Why? 1. Using the standard is useful. Other people's computers use QWERTY. Terminals for typing things in airports use QWERTY. When you have to do first aid stuff on your system, you're not…

  loadkeys dvorak
Now you are using Dvorak at the emergency console. Workman is more obscure, and that's a disadvantage, but Dvorak is available everywhere.

And Qwerty is awful, the home row is a huge, huge part of that problem, you can't just wave that away.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#113

Post by MrOxiMoron »

I don't use my computer for writing epic novels, I'm using it to play games (key placement doesn't matter) and programming. So how much easier/difference is there for programming in different languages? I know for a fact that PHP made the choice for the namespace separator based on availability on certain keyboard layouts.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#114

Post by V-2 »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #14

For people looking to try a new layout, I recommend a Carpalx optimized layout. They have very detailed analysis on the layout: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization I've been using it on my Kinesis for a while, and it's totally worth it: https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/ki...

I'm long aware of this website. Fascinating stuff. I wonder how this Workman Layout would fare, evaluted by their algorithm?

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#115

Post by bbx »

I think typing efficiently on a keyboard is akin to playing the piano with good technique.

I often see musicians playing piano (or keyboard synths) with improprer technique. They move their wrist a lot, bend their finger backwards to apply pressure, and tense their fingers by laying them flat. This causes stress in the motion and fatigue over time.

All (or most) the pressing power should come from the tip and the phalanges (?). You use each finger like its own little hammer. It requires a bit of training but not much really. You just need to strengthen those tiny muscles over time by consciously moving the finger only.

Of course the rest of the hand can move a bit but it shouldn’t tense any muscle at all. The wrist should only hover around the piano/keyboard to move closer to the target keys. And the rest of the arm and shoulder should of course not move or tense at all.

If you can play the piano like this, you can type on a keyboard the same way. No tension in the hand. Only a bit in the finger when it’s pressing, but none otherwise. As a result, you’ll likely prefer like me keyboards with very low travel. I have the Apple Mac keyboard which has a slight angle and very low travel. It’s very easy to “hammer” the keys with low effort. I’ve never had any wrist pain in 20 years of being both a musician and a developer.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#116

Post by V-2 »

coconut08 wrote: post #41
Okkef wrote: post #38

Learning a new layout takes months of training. If you want to improve ergonomics, I would take the following steps; 1. Get as split keyboard for better shoulder posture (ultimate hacking keyboard) 2. Get a column staggered board instead of row staggered for better finger movement and more thumb keys (ergodox or iris keyboard) 3. Get rid of the num row and limit movement for fingers to one key in any direction using…

>Learning a new layout takes months of training. This is completely false. If you go cold turkey and actually work at it you can actually memorize a keyboard layout in a single afternoon, though you will be slow as hell. If you keep at it without switching back you can get up to like 30 wpm in a week. I did it with both colemak and beakl 15. The problem isn't that it takes months, the problem is that it is incredibly…

I'm a quite fast typist, typing at around 120-130 WPM (on short distances obviously) when using QWERTY. This skill is lost if I switch to a new layout.

I once tried switching to CarpalX. I was able to get to about 80-90 WPM - it had indeed taken a few weeks, if I recall - and I pretty much hit the ceiling around that level.

"Memorizing a layout in a single afternoon", or achieving 30 WPM in a week are entirely plausible scenarios, but they are not what I'd consider success stories.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#117

Post by yuribro »

moonchild wrote: post #105
jeromenerf wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I like the thumb keys (2 per thumb would be enough for me though), the tap/hold feature and the central special keys on ergodox for instance. I have not found anything like that for laptops. Not even a split space bar. The tap/hold feature is possible at the os level, with caveats. I usually map the key left to the space bar to Enter.

What is tap/hold? I believe some people have done portable kinesis builds, which could be an option in tandem with a laptop.

The most famous one is the dactyl[0]. I'm guessing you mean a portable kinesis advantage. There are some other kinesis keyboards which are portable.

[0] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#118

Post by daffy »

clarry wrote: post #80
thanhhaimai wrote: post #14

For people looking to try a new layout, I recommend a Carpalx optimized layout. They have very detailed analysis on the layout: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization I've been using it on my Kinesis for a while, and it's totally worth it: https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboards/ki...

> and it's totally worth it How would you characterise it? Speed, comfort, typo rate, something else? What layout(s) did you touch type on before carpalx? I might be interested in switching (after 15 years of increasingly customized dvorak).

I've been using qgmlwb for 4 years or so. It's difficult to compare with qwerty, since I didn't type properly before, but it feels pretty comfortable and effortless. I feel like my right hand is overused, but I doubt it has anything to do with the layout, I just don't like using my right pinky; or, rather, it doesn't like to be used.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#119

Post by yuribro »

lawn wrote: post #103
shirro wrote: post #23

A lot of keyboards optimize the wrong things at least as far as programming is concerned. All the optimizations seem to focus on letters but most of the time an editor or shell can auto complete keywords or identifiers. A ridiculous number of symbols seem to be a very long way from the home keys on weak fingers with modifiers required to access them. If I had to write huge amounts of plain prose and had RSI I think I…

I don't recommend it. I too tried this with an Ergodox, but the keys you want to have your symbols on are just so far away anyway. The center columns for example are quite far. Instead I think it's better to use layers (holding down a key to change what other keys do) and place symbols close to your home row. You can even have a numpad right under your fingertips. This is why ergonomic keyboard users are generally mo…

I have the same experience. I started with using all the extra keys on the Ergodox, but it was difficult reaching them, including most of the keys in the thumb area. I have since changed the layout to mimic the altreus layout (with most of the extra keys empty), which works much better. And am waiting for my altreus from keyboard.io to arrive as the extra keys on the ergo actually cause me to miss with the pinky and hit the "empty" keys sometimes.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#120

Post by throwwwaway »

hakanderyal wrote: post #47
shirro wrote: post #23

A lot of keyboards optimize the wrong things at least as far as programming is concerned. All the optimizations seem to focus on letters but most of the time an editor or shell can auto complete keywords or identifiers. A ridiculous number of symbols seem to be a very long way from the home keys on weak fingers with modifiers required to access them. If I had to write huge amounts of plain prose and had RSI I think I…

Check out Programmer's Dvorak[0]. Especially with the help of the editor auto closing parens, it's much more natural for me to write code in. [0]: https://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

I second this. I had to stop programming full time due to right pinky strain. Programmer dvorak let me resume full time keyboard use with no pain.
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