New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus • Hacker News Board

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#111

Post by ahelwer » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #106

ahelwer wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, drug & alcohol addiction is widespread in the general non-homeless population and makes it difficult to ensure steady income. When the cost of rent rises dramatically, this means people with those issues are likely to find themselves homeless. Addictions are difficult to kick in the best of times (who among us doesn't know of some rich kid who's been in and out of rehab into their 30s?) and basically impossible…

Drug and alcohol addiction leads to homelessness because nobody wants to hire an addict and addicts prioritize spending on their addiction. Cheaper housing will not fix it, because the cost of housing is not the problem. My point is that solutions will fail if they do not recognize and treat the actual cause. Otherwise you're treating lung cancer with antibiotics. It won't work. And it hasn't worked.

Yes, all effective socialized housing programs which serve the homeless have integrated mental health services. It's impossible for such treatment to be effective if people don't have a home. To restate: without housing & mental health support, many homeless people will never regain capacity. Again, I don't know what your point is. You might be interested to learn this media focus on the prevalence of addiction in homeless populations is commonly used along with an outdated model of addiction-as-moral-failure to portray people experiencing homelessness as unworthy of support, fit only to die.

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#112

Post by BurningFrog » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

milkytron wrote: post #44

BurningFrog wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where NYC is a city that doesn't sleep, Seattle sleeps Are there any other US cities that don't sleep?

I'd argue Las Vegas.

Agreed.

So two cities then?

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#113

Post by nitrogen » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #109

vonmoltke wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike restaurants, which the original quote referred to, people sometimes live in places they don't like because of extenuating circumstances. Just because a whole bunch of people are living in densely-packed neighborhoods doesn't mean they all want to live in them.

If nobody wanted to live in these places they wouldn't be so expensive. Law of supply and demand.

If you define "want" to include "have to be close to work to have a shot at career progression".

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#114

Post by runawaybottle » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 9:23 PM UTC

‘Location location location’

Doesn’t hurt to test proverbs. I personally wouldn’t bet against it.

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#115

Post by personaenon » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

WFH gonna be short lived.....too many troglodyte managers must SEE butts in seats......

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#116

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #96

WalterBright wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> low taxes - directly contributes to the issue of homelessness and half of your complaints. I've lived here for 40 years. It's always had low taxes, but the problems you're talking about are very recent.

Yes, the rise in rent has been quite dramatic recently - and our social services have been utterly ill-prepared to handle the fallout, because of low taxes.

Despite low tax rates, tax revenue for the city has risen dramatically alongside the local economic boom.

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#117

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #111

WalterBright wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug and alcohol addiction leads to homelessness because nobody wants to hire an addict and addicts prioritize spending on their addiction. Cheaper housing will not fix it, because the cost of housing is not the problem. My point is that solutions will fail if they do not recognize and treat the actual cause. Otherwise you're treating lung cancer with antibiotics. It won't work. And it hasn't worked.

Yes, all effective socialized housing programs which serve the homeless have integrated mental health services. It's impossible for such treatment to be effective if people don't have a home. To restate: without housing & mental health support, many homeless people will never regain capacity. Again, I don't know what your point is. You might be interested to learn this media focus on the prevalence of addiction in ho…

I infer you do understand that addiction is a proximate cause of homelessness, not rising house prices. So I've made my point.

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#118

Post by ahelwer » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #116

ahelwer wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the rise in rent has been quite dramatic recently - and our social services have been utterly ill-prepared to handle the fallout, because of low taxes.

Despite low tax rates, tax revenue for the city has risen dramatically alongside the local economic boom.

Yes, but real estate prices have risen even faster - and helping people experiencing homelessness fundamentally requires real estate to house them.

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#119

Post by ahelwer » Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 11:17 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #117

ahelwer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all effective socialized housing programs which serve the homeless have integrated mental health services. It's impossible for such treatment to be effective if people don't have a home. To restate: without housing & mental health support, many homeless people will never regain capacity. Again, I don't know what your point is. You might be interested to learn this media focus on the prevalence of addiction in ho…

I infer you do understand that addiction is a proximate cause of homelessness, not rising house prices. So I've made my point.

Only 35% of people experiencing homelessness struggle with addiction[0], so no I don't think you have. But sure, grant your premise - it's the combination! If house prices go up then people who were struggling to make rent at the lower level won't make it at the higher level, thus becoming homeless. There are many, many people with addictions who are financially functional to a point, but rising rents can finally kick them on to the streets where things get much worse. Boiling things down to a single cause like "oh it's addiction" isn't useful.

[0] https://sunrisehouse.com/addiction-demographics/homeless-pop...

Re: New Yorkers consider relocating post coronavirus

#120

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 12:47 AM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #119

WalterBright wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I infer you do understand that addiction is a proximate cause of homelessness, not rising house prices. So I've made my point.

Only 35% of people experiencing homelessness struggle with addiction[0], so no I don't think you have. But sure, grant your premise - it's the combination! If house prices go up then people who were struggling to make rent at the lower level won't make it at the higher level, thus becoming homeless. There are many, many people with addictions who are financially functional to a point, but rising rents can finally kic…

In Seattle it's much higher.

Keep in mind that if you just ask people if they're on drugs, many will deny it. Many will cite other reasons for being homeless. You have to dig a little deeper to find that those "other reasons" are often a consequence of drug abuse.

35%, while very likely an undercount, is still a huge number.