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DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

bbc.com

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Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#111

Post by beagle3 »

bipson wrote: post #91
dennis_jeeves wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if it was so clear cut and widespread, these vaccines would be pulled from the market yesterday bipson, Ever read of Vioxx or Thalidomide? Yes it was pulled, a tad late though. What is the point that you are trying to make that somebody doesn't already know?

1. Yes, I heard about them. And the point remains, as soon as their effects were discovered, they were pulled . 2. These are not vaccines, but medications. So this has virtually nothing to do with "known vaccine-induced ongoing illnesses"

Which is the prisoner’s dilemma I mentioned earlier - if you already enjoy herd immunity, why risk being part of the group in which the problems are discovered?

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#112

Post by SamPatt »

bipson wrote: post #76
SamPatt wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if it was so clear cut and widespread, these vaccines would be pulled from the market yesterday That argument is empirically false, as there have been multiple medications and vaccinations which did widespread harm. Granted, nearly all of them occurred 30+ years ago. However I don't think we should ever claim we've advanced to the point where we _know_ that there are _no_ medications or vaccinations that are causing…

Yes, and those vaccines were pulled . Once a vaccine has shown to be just remotely as dangerous as the illness it is trying to prevent, it becomes pointless and is no longer available. The respective regulative bodies in either country are rather strict about which vaccine is allowed to circulate.

Those vaccines were pulled _eventually_. We cannot know if we're in the period where harm is being done but before it's realized and the vaccine then pulled.

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#113

Post by ganzuul »

appleflaxen wrote: post #65
ganzuul wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I read about someone paying 4000 USD for an operation for their old cat. People have strange priorities. Perhaps it would be good to see what poverty is like.

I anticipate you will get a lot of criticism by people who have extremely strong emotional connections to their animal companions. And who are we to say they are wrong? The problem isn't that people care too much about their pets: it's that we don't care enough about human beings we've never met. And it's a hard problem to solve, because it's like a wetware problem, and we are hard to upgrade.

HN is really immature in this regard. The way I framed my post left nothing specific to pick out as objectionable but these people obviously don't even like the suggestion that their values are in question.

So do I let them continue as before and be a hypocrite by valuing fake internet points more than human lives?

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#114

Post by raxxorrax »

danharaj wrote: post #99
raxxorrax wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than nothing but flu vaccines have a bad effectiveness compared to almost all other vaccines. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.... It still is a bit of a gamble.

For the vast majority of people, there is no downside to getting the flu vaccine. A gamble implies there's something to lose.

With gamble I meant that the vaccine being developed for the correct strain active in the flu season.

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#116

Post by bipson »

beagle3 wrote: post #110
bluGill wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most "Vaccine injured" children have a no vaccine related cause to their problems. It has become hip to blame autism on vaccines even though there is no relation. Something like 1 in million do have a serious side effect of the vaccine. This is far less than the 6000 dead in Congo because they don't have the vaccine, but it isn't zero. The fact that it is far less is reason to vaccinate anyway - but if doctors can de…

People who are immunocompromised or who have an autoimmune condition may get serious complications from vaccines. It is, in fact, a well known contraindication. Some people do not know they are in one of those groups, and ARE likely to experience harm. These groups (unaware immune issues) are statistically insignificant compared to the entire population, of course. But ignoring them is in fact contributing to the ant…

I fully agree.

The problem is: Even to well educated parents the summary "Everyone could be affected by life-long effects due to vaccination" has a drastically different meaning compared to an objective bystander that looks at the real numbers, and this leads to (seemingly irrational) decisions. Some even are mislead into feeding crusades against this "well known danger called vaccination".

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#117

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bipson wrote: post #107
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, confusion was not intended. People act as if vaccination is perfect and has no risks and that people who try and consider the risks are thus stupid. >"These vaccination-associated symptoms are widely harmless" So, mild symptoms are mild, got you. But you accept that there are people getting life altering illnesses from vaccinations? Eg https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/guillainbarre.htm says about 1-2 per mil…

Why did you leave out this (essential) information that associates your cherry-picked statement?: (emphasis mine) >The data on the association between GBS and seasonal flu vaccination are variable and inconsistent across flu seasons. If there is an increased risk of GBS following flu vaccination it is small, on the order of one to two additional GBS cases per million doses of flu vaccine administered. They clearly ne…

This is a brief conversation on a mobile phone, I clearly sourced my backing for that statement.

Answer this - does vaccination have any major health risks?

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#118

Post by mmember221 »

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Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#119

Post by gdfasfklshg4 »

rwmurrayVT wrote: post #70
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very recently UK medics noticed some highly deleterious effects of Tetra Fluenz flu vaccine and pushed back the earliest age for its use to 24 months. They not only entertained not vaccinating, they advise it. It's irrational to not consider the question of whether taking a vaccine is right (for yourself [or dependents], and for the population).

There's a big difference between a flu vaccination and MMR.

Not as big as you are thinking the MMR is normally given after one year. This is because there are some know potential negative side effects when babies get it earlier.

The point is that society already evaluates these hazards/risks very effectively so that individual parents don't need to. Indeed any individual parent's risk analysis about vaccines is likely to put their children at greater risk.

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