When good ideas make bad business • Hacker News Board

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#111

Post by tylerrobinson » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

jcims wrote: post #92

tylerrobinson wrote: post #49

Hi Tom, thanks for sharing this. I work for a company in the evidence based medicine space that would have become your competitor had you continued to pursue this idea. Send me a line (email in profile), it would be interesting to get introduced.

Hey is there a way for patients/caregivers to get involved? I'm particularly interested in finding ways to collect data on trials that are in progress but haven't published results yet. Secondarily trying to build an evidence-based approaches to selecting low-risk adjuvant therapies that hasn't been directly proven in clinical trials.

I don't entirely follow your question, but please feel free to send me an email if you want to catch up on this.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#112

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #90

cjdupreez wrote: post #51

Unfortunately, I feel like this is a lesson that's best learned the hard way. Everyone can tell you from the get-go to "have a business plan" before committing financially and professionally to a self-concocted venture. It's not until you run through it and witness the brutality of failure first-hand that you realize the importance of doing your homework first and having a plan.

I don't know, I have never witnessed the brutality of this failure first hand and I understand the importance of doing my homework and having a plan.

[deleted]

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#113

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #84

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most realistic founding story so far is Bezos explanation for how he founded Amazon. It was always a business-first mindset in an area of high growth. That one short video filmed in 1997 should be a masterclass by itself.

Anyone has a link to the above video?

[deleted]

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#114

Post by rurp » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #16

DJBunnies wrote: post #7

I feel like one can just review the symptom relief for each product. Are there people that don't know acetaminophen is for headaches and ibprofin is for muscle aches?

Yes. I didn't know that until right this second.

Yep, same here. I've always just used whichever OTC pain killer was most convenient and have never noticed a difference between them. They all seem mildly effective at reducing discomfort. I have taken Ibuprofen for headaches many times and it seems just as helpful as anything else.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#115

Post by larkost » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #79

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That line stood out to me also. Anyone who feels that the primary goal of healthcare in the US is to improve health outcomes is incredibly naive about how this industry (which is over 20% of the us economy) works. There is only one group in the entire industry which has an incentive to keep people healthy (insurance) and that is the most hated of the bunch!

.. and the doctors he talked to felt they already had the knowledge they needed! If anything, they felt, perhaps, that this devalued their existing knowledge. And they don't make 10% more money for providing 10% better outcomes.

This is probably the root of the problems in US medicine: there is no effective feedback. The ACA (Obamacare) did a little work on this with Medicare payments to hospitals, but that is an exception in the system.

What could we do to make this the basis of the system? Without driving doctors away from patients who have bad prognocices?

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#116

Post by pm90 » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

mLuby wrote: post #87

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I get so grumpy about startup narratives. If you ask successful unicorns how they got started, they'll usually explain that's exactly what they did. Garrett Camp was just trying to hire a private driver, and realized it was too hard, there's no reason it should be so hard. Jack Dorsey saw a guy who didn't accept credit cards and realized it would be great if he could accept credit cards. If you don't real…

Exactly. Founder myths gloss over the starting details heavily (perhaps because then they seem merely lucky and hardworking). For example, a recent Musk biography spent maybe a page on the part where he became successful, and a Jobs one just a paragraph or two. I'd like to see a compilation of these details.

There is a deep yearning in humans for a good story. However, taking these stories at face value is a recipe for certain failure.

In a certain harsh sense, if you're gullible enough to believe in those stories you're probably not ready to start your own business.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#117

Post by mrfredward » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

scottmsul wrote: post #63

While not a unicorn, this could potentially succeed as an indie-hacker sized project. One potential business strategy could be a high-level information hub - a weekly blog + podcast for example. Each week look at a different drug or illness, look at all the relevant papers, do a short statistical analysis, and summarize. Then get some patreons, run ads, maybe sponsorships for particular drugs, etc. I think there's a…

Another idea that could make this a viable business: while in general consumers won't pay for this sort of thing, there are certain problems that the medical establishment just does a horrible job treating, where I think people would gladly pay up. Migraines, for example.

I personally suffer from some sort of headache disorder (symptoms are a mix between migraines and cluster headaches, I've had different diagnoses). I went to a neurologist every 3 months for 2 years, at $200 per 30 minute visit, and usually less than 10 of those minutes were spent with the doctor. Every time he made some seat of the pants guess as to what to do next (adjust the dosage I was receiving, or change medications). In the end, I never found anything better than taking a bunch of ibuprofen at the first sign of a headache, and that was something I figured out on my own.

I wouldn't pay a dime to see a comparison of generic and name brand NyQuil, but if a trustworthy source offered me a personalized report on what medications I should be looking at based on my headache symptoms, and had studies to back it up, I'd gladly pay $100+.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#118

Post by brianobush » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #97

Hey, hey -- what about a grant from WHO, NIH or NHS? What about having a national or world government continuously sponsor this work as a public resource?

NIH grants are extremely hard to write and get funded if outside of an educational institution. I have tried both in and out of school; inside it was relatively easy, outside near impossible. YMMV.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#119

Post by __oh_es » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #84

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most realistic founding story so far is Bezos explanation for how he founded Amazon. It was always a business-first mindset in an area of high growth. That one short video filmed in 1997 should be a masterclass by itself.

Anyone has a link to the above video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWRbTnE1PEM

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#120

Post by bkraz » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

Thank you for sharing the details of your experience. Healthcare in the US is not a normal market, so normal product- based thinking doesn't work. The end user doesn't pay, so they cannot directly influence the market by choosing products. Your discovery with the doctor who said that improving care doesn't help her, is really insightful. The 80/20 insurance rule fixes insurance profits so they have an incentive to make care as expensive as possible. Despite all this, we all know there is a ton of value in making things better. Your graph of Aleve performing so much better then ibuprofen is really interesting, and seems to capture how other parts of the system could be improved if end users were given the choice. Maybe a trusted review site with data to help patients choose doctors.