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I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

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Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#111

Post by xtracto »

tuesday20 wrote: post #46
ainar-g wrote: post #2

> Wait a second. I was in a business relationship with Google. > It may sound strange that it took me two and a half years to realize it, but Google does a good job of building a sense of community within the organization. To make us feel that we’re not just employees, but that we are Google. > That conversation made me realize that I’m not Google. I provide a service to Google in exchange for money. People, and espe…

My dad had just one job all his life, for 33 years. While he didn’t become rich, he did enjoy relative peace of mind, pension etc. Of course everything is relative, but there was a time where companies had a little bit of concern to their employees, however small it was. Those days are gone. These days, companies don’t even pretend. A very small percentage of people are going to do well, for the vast majority it is j…

It is just that your dad had different expectations.

Had your dad expected to be promoted every 2 years like this guy, after 33 years he would have been CEO of the company. It is real that a lot of people today expect to get promoted fast for only doing their job.

Ask your dad what would he think if his job had all the perks that Google and FB give, including relative salary. You will see that it will sound like heaven for him. Why not just stay working there?

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#112

Post by doublement »

bluntfang wrote: post #107
izacus wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? So why does everyone complain about engineering shortage?

Sorry, you're right, I should rethink my argument. Billion dollar businesses aren't made on chainsaws and rocket engines. They're mostly made in conference rooms by salespeople with capitol. So, identifying as a chainsaw or rocket engine is basically just an admitting that you're a tool willing to work for less than what the salespeople think what your labor is worth. You aren't going to change the world as an IC. If…

You're not working for "less than what someone thinks your worth", you're working for a price set by the market and an assessment of what level of quality your work is.

A developer gets paid before the salespeople have anything to sell. It's up to the company and its salespeople to try to not lose money on their deal with their R&D people. Considering the context of the article (Google engineer) and how much people in that market get paid, making money after you pay them is a tall order. Most businesses fail.

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#113

Post by m0zg »

vonseel wrote: post #106
rb808 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're at a corporation you should figure out which game you're playing. Are you there to "benefit the company" or get "promoted and rewarded"? Make a decision but they are different paths leading different directions.

Those are equally terrifying statements to what the user above said.

Those statements aren't "terrifying" in the least once you consider that your relationship with the employer is a _business_ relationship. If the employer didn't want career games, they wouldn't reward them. As simple as that. If your company's official party line diverges from its reward structure, the best thing you can do for yourself is to follow the reward structure and ignore the exhortations to be doing things the company obviously doesn't give a shit about (as measured in dollars, the only reliable measure).

Fundamentally your only rational goal in the situation is to maximize your expected return over the duration of your employment. At Google or FB you maximize it by launching stuff that looks good in a promo packet (with metrics and numbers, too; if you can't measure something it's worthless at promo time), and never, ever working on anything "legacy" related.

Those are, at a basic level, the rules of the game. Your _rational_ choices are: play the game well, or play some other variant of the game somewhere else. Not playing the game is not an option. Playing the game poorly is irrational.

Here's the authoritative guide for Google specifically: http://piaw.blogspot.com/2010/08/tips-for-noogler-engineers..... It should serve you well at other, similar companies, with only minor tweaks.

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#114

Post by m0zg »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #8

The idea of working to please an anonymous promotion committee is quite depressing. Why do this “pick me” dance when it’s completely within your control to get the job you want within a few weeks? By far the path of least resistance is simply to get a job and the promotion elsewhere. Or do something entrepreneurial like this guy and completely tie your skills and abilities to the rewards. As a talented engineer at Go…

There's a twist to this. Once you reach the "senior" level, you don't have to "play the game" anymore. You're pretty well compensated, the requirements to get to the next level are stratospheric, so you could just stay a T5 forever. Although it'll gnaw on you that your former engineering peers who have switched to management seem to have a much easier time going up the ladder, even though they suck mightily as managers, and it's not clear to anyone (including themselves) what they actually do.

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#115

Post by kelvin0 »

In the end where do you get your rocket fuel?

It's either

a) External validation from factors out of your control, or ...

b) Internal self-motivation which you have 100% linked to your own volition.

Waiting for some unicorn to land in your lap with a golden certificate of promotion might be a little difficult to attain. Attacking interesting problems and helping others with your talents might be more meaningful.

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#116

Post by pmart123 »

rb808 wrote: post #103
heyflyguy wrote: post #29

Now granted, I never worked at Google, but I've worked for several F500 companies through the years. I made a promise that I'll never work for one ever again because this corporate structure and bloat tend to engineer promotions and reward through things that do not actually benefit the company. His work, which was useful to the company essentially got reworked into something that impressed the "promotion committee".…

If you're at a corporation you should figure out which game you're playing. Are you there to "benefit the company" or get "promoted and rewarded"? Make a decision but they are different paths leading different directions.

My general feeling regarding any company is work closest to the source of revenue. This way, your performance will be attached to what drives the business performance.

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#117

Post by pmart123 »

pmart123 wrote: post #116
rb808 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're at a corporation you should figure out which game you're playing. Are you there to "benefit the company" or get "promoted and rewarded"? Make a decision but they are different paths leading different directions.

My general feeling regarding any company is work closest to the source of revenue. This way, your performance will be attached to what drives the business performance.

The corollary to this is working in the area that the company appreciates the most. So, for Apple, it might be design, for Google, software engineering, for Salesforce, being on the sales side.

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#118

Post by rb808 »

vonseel wrote: post #106
rb808 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're at a corporation you should figure out which game you're playing. Are you there to "benefit the company" or get "promoted and rewarded"? Make a decision but they are different paths leading different directions.

Those are equally terrifying statements to what the user above said.

One thing I was going to add but didn't makes it less terrifying. Often people what people think is benefiting the company isnt. eg being a hero working long hours is great in the very short term, but a better solution is managing a more sustainable process that consistently delivers.

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#119

Post by buboard »

claudiawerner wrote: post #89
ainar-g wrote: post #2

> Wait a second. I was in a business relationship with Google. > It may sound strange that it took me two and a half years to realize it, but Google does a good job of building a sense of community within the organization. To make us feel that we’re not just employees, but that we are Google. > That conversation made me realize that I’m not Google. I provide a service to Google in exchange for money. People, and espe…

>Arguably the most pervasive element enabling exploitative office culture is the postmodern trickery of the contemporary working environment. Slavoj Žižek argues that modern employment tactics create the illusion that our employer is our friend. This fabrication empowers the employer while denying the employed the right to vocalize and protest dissatisfaction of their working conditions. “You’re not going to stick ar…

There is nothing particularly insightful in that quote. Employee/employer relationship is like any other transactional relationship: exchanging some freedom for money. Other forms, e.g. freelancing, consulting are different, but pay less for the same amount of work

Re: I Quit Google to Work for Myself (2018)

#120

Post by [deleted] »

seieste wrote: post #31
ayende wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to burnout, then. That is not sustainable, and you can't create a profitable solution in a time frame that this amount of work would pay off without horrible (personal) costs.

In my experience, burnout seems to be a result of poor sleep, poor nutrition, lack of autonomy, lack of recognition, etc. This is especially true if working harder won't lead to greater rewards, like if you have a fixed salary or if your compensation is fairly independent from your actual work. Many of these are more likely to occur when working at a big Corp, so working by yourself can help you avoid this.

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