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Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

bbc.com

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Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#111

Post by netcan »

It's fascinating that intelligence exists in different clades & phylum of animals: crows, octopus, apes etc. It suggests intelligence is not very progressive, in evolution. It advances & recedes, and evolution can find multiple paths to it from various starting point. It doesn't take a mammalian brain.

Who know what other animal intelligence exists today, or in the past.

The current crop of species (us excepted) may not be the smartest to have existed, problem solving intelligence like the crow's could have existed 500 mya as easily as it can now. You don't need mammals, or even necessarily vertebrates.

The first thing I found fascinating in YNH's "Sapiens" was his "start of history" debate. When did people start really standing out from the faunal crowd. He puts this at just around 40 kya.

That is, people were walking around with modern sized & equipped brain hardware for hundreds of thousands of years. They were obviously extremely intelligent. They would have performed as well as us on such intelligence tests.

If sapiens had gone extinct before 40kya, they would have left no indication that their intelligence such potential that it did. They would have just been a smart animal.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#112

Post by barrkel »

classified wrote: post #82
seszett wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair though, birds have had to adapt long ago to evaluating the movement of very fast moving objects, while rabbits and most mammals have not really had to cope with fast speeds until humans invented cars just a century ago.

Are you forgetting the birds of prey?

Staying still (minimizing visibility through motion detection) and then moving at the last moment is better avoidance strategy for a bird of prey, unless there's an actual hole they can disappear down.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#113

Post by coldtea »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #107
coldtea wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there's no need for this comment, the mock-indignation on behalf of others. A funny aside is always welcome in an otherwise substantial comment, and no, this is not considered racism or offending by 99% of Earth's population, including most Irish.

Saying something displaying a certain behavior makes them seem like a certain race is racism, even if you don't find it offensive.

Irish are an ethnicity, not a race. They're the same race as I am (and probably the grandparent). And they make the same kind of jokes themselves all the time, like my people do the same kind of stereotype jokes for our own kind.

It's only "racism" in the provincial US preoccupation that "everything said that touches on a population/ethnicity/race is racism". Not in the "X are inferior/KKK/etc" sense, which is what we should be concerned with.

I, for one, don't appreciate taking lessons about how a joke is racist from people from a country that had slavery until the 19th century, segregation since the 1970s, and widespread systemic/popular/law enforcement racism problems today. As if their experience is the universal standard that should be applied to the global population here on the internet. That's, if not racist, surely imposing upon others...

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#114

Post by tempguy9999 »

seszett wrote: post #77
SiVal wrote: post #20

We have crows and jackrabbits in our neighborhood. You drive down the road toward a bunch (I think they prefer the term "murder") of crows having a meeting in the middle of the road. They'll eventually start nonchalantly strolling to the side at a calm, measured pace perfectly timed to just barely get out of the way as you pass and stroll back again, no feathers ruffled. Jackrabbits will be sitting safely in the gras…

To be fair though, birds have had to adapt long ago to evaluating the movement of very fast moving objects, while rabbits and most mammals have not really had to cope with fast speeds until humans invented cars just a century ago.

Rabbits are prey animals. I don't think(?) crows are.

Prey animals are wary and startle easily to reduce their chance of becoming lunch.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#116

Post by philipov »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #114
seszett wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair though, birds have had to adapt long ago to evaluating the movement of very fast moving objects, while rabbits and most mammals have not really had to cope with fast speeds until humans invented cars just a century ago.

Rabbits are prey animals. I don't think(?) crows are. Prey animals are wary and startle easily to reduce their chance of becoming lunch.

By that logic, they shouldn't be running towards the car that's gonna eat them.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#118

Post by jayd16 »

burtonator wrote: post #6

Crows are amazingly intelligent animals. My GF and I went to the beach about a month ago and took our dog. The crows weren't frightened at ALL of our dog. They realized they could basically just 'float' up in the air when he came by using the breeze. The fact that they were amazingly calm about it was really telling. Second. We hid our stuff under a blanket. They realize it's still there as they have item persistence…

Gulls are pretty smart too. I've seen a flock case out a tourist as they set up their beach blanket. Once the tourist turns their back, they swoop in.

I've seen a one pull a closed brown lunch bag out of a freshly opened backpack, meaning the knew backpacks probably have food and brown bags are worth stealing and inspecting in detail elsewhere.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#119

Post by clarry »

orthoxerox wrote: post #58
User23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a crow steal a credit card off an outdoor table in Seattle once. They really are remarkable animals. Also I swear they have regional accents to their calls.

I wonder if they know how to use ATMs

I think I saw a video of some bird puzzle where they have to tap the right thing with their beak to get a treat. It doesn't seem too far removed from entering a PIN code. I bet you could teach them to do that.

Also, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think they would learn to insert a credit card into the machine given that they're good at manipulating sticks and stones and putting them into places.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#120

Post by tempguy9999 »

jokab wrote: post #66
leed25d wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm the quote. Source? I am part Irish.

I am offended. I am part crow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Nation

I realise now that I very badly misunderstood the article :)

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