Microsoft's “Love” of Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#111

Post by signal11 » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

conexions wrote: post #25

juliangoldsmith wrote: post #17

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

A web interface is already a reality.[1] Work great with Chrome or Chromium. Not a full featured office, but in general very nice. [1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/office/ndjpnladcal...

It's not just the web versions of Office that work on Linux. On Chromebooks, the Android runtime ensures that the Android MS Office apps run full-screen and take advantage of the large screen and keyboard[1,2].

[1] https://imgur.com/a/rp0VFR4 [2] https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-android-apps-chrome...

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#112

Post by pytester » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #93

excursionist wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has historically been the single greatest enemy of Linux and Open Source in general. The only reason they now changed face and hopped on the Linux train is that they realized they lost or cannot possibly win the battle when it comes to servers, embedded devices, a large section of developers, mobile, etc. > I can tell you unequivocally the thing holding back the average enterprise from moving their entire b…

People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. Constantly looking for others to blame (Microsoft, DRM, Google, Valve, Apple, etc) doesn't change that fact. The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that. Linux Desktop is exclusively designed for Linux developers, it is…

>People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad.

There is a reason why it is not offered as an option to be preinstalled on laptops except in a few instances.

That reason is not "because it is bad".

The windows license is a tax on laptops. End of story. I have a dell xps 13 and even I paid it (dell's developer edition laptop is often hard to acquire for some reason).

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#113

Post by gowld » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

pksdjfikkkkdsff wrote: post #32

I can't really follow the article. Too much paranoia, or negativity, I guess. All I care about is having a usable Linux shell and Linux tool on my Windows machine. What else can you expect from Microsoft? Yeah, they are doing it so that people don't switch over to Linux completely. What more can you expect? Is it even Microsoft's job to establish a standard for 3d Graphics and what not? Or is the ball in the park of…

Why wouldn't an Operating System developer be responsible for providing an interface between hardware developers and applicaton developers?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#114

Post by jeffdavis » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

The technology landscape has changed so much in 20 years. Is this analytical framework still relevant?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#115

Post by skohan » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

jrs95 wrote: post #11

skohan wrote: post #7

I don't think it's a particularly good thing for Microsoft to cozy up with Linux, let alone any of the larger tech firms. In particular, I don't think it's great that Microsoft is such a heavy contributor to the Linux foundation. If the people who work on Linux become financially dependent on large tech firms, this creates potential conflict-of-interest. For instance, is it impossible to imagine that as Proton become…

Linux development is already dependent on large tech firms and has been for a long time.

I understand that. I’m saying I don’t think it’s a good thing.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#116

Post by gowld » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

Every dollar and every minute of attention you give to proprietary software, hurts open source.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#117

Post by excursionist » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #93

excursionist wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has historically been the single greatest enemy of Linux and Open Source in general. The only reason they now changed face and hopped on the Linux train is that they realized they lost or cannot possibly win the battle when it comes to servers, embedded devices, a large section of developers, mobile, etc. > I can tell you unequivocally the thing holding back the average enterprise from moving their entire b…

People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. Constantly looking for others to blame (Microsoft, DRM, Google, Valve, Apple, etc) doesn't change that fact. The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that. Linux Desktop is exclusively designed for Linux developers, it is…

> People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad.

People do you Linux Desktop because it is great. I do.

> The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that.

In what way is Android or Chromebook better than, say, Debian or Ubuntu on desktop?

> Linux Desktop is exclusively designed for Linux developers.. blah blah blah

Just false bullshit.

> If you want Linux Desktop to be a success, maybe spend less time finding the latest scapegoat and more time helping make it a good user experience.

If you want to debate the quality of Linux as a deskop OS maybe try using it, learn a little about it, and make statements that have even a little bit of substance and basis in reality.

> Try going to a mailing list and suggesting that editing text files in /etc isn't a practical end-user experience and see what response you get.

First of all, it is perfectly practical, especially given the fact that you can find step-by-step instruction to do just about anything in a matter of seconds. Second, you rarely have to do these things and graphical overlays are often available and/or come pre-installed on distros such as Ubuntu. Third, you sometimes have to do similar things on Windows, whether it be editing the hosts file or changing obscure registry settings - the difference is that the Linux versions of these things have much better documentation, and much more info and community support online.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#118

Post by FpUser » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

headmelted wrote: post #71

The author misses the bigger picture completely. Microsoft used to see Linux as competition, and while that might still be true in some ways, it’s largely moot for a couple of reasons. In 2019, Windows isn’t competing with Linux for desktop market share not because Linux poses no threat there, but because the desktop doesn’t matter anymore . Windows, and the desktop operating system as a concept, is competing with th…

the desktop doesn’t matter anymore

most casual users gave up computers for smartphones years ago

I would consider either statement to be completely false. While less people have full blown desktops almost everyone has laptop and modern laptops are good enough.

I would agree that there are many poor countries/places where people can only afford smartphone. But hopefully the future of humanity is to get better rather than going down to that level.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#119

Post by wazanator » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #43

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Office was available for Linux, some organizations could consider deploying Linux workstations with Office since that's what most users/employees need is basically a browser (100%/users) and the Office suite (50-90%/users). Office Online is severely gimped as noted in the article and is solely to counteract adoption of Google Office.

What is a good example of it being gimped? I honestly think its better online than the apps themselves.

Excel is much more limited in the browser compared to the desktop app.

Conditional formatting for example can not use formulas in the online version.

The browser version is good but it's not at the same level as the desktop or even Google sheets yet.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#120

Post by vetinari » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #42

I’m honestly surprised that Microsoft aren’t working with Linux vendors in an attempt to solve Linux problems by more deeply integrating Windows-styled solutions into Linux, such that the Linux client ecosystem becomes more dependent on the Windows infrastructure ecosystem. That’d be the natural Azure-focused equivalent to “embrace, extend, extinguish.” For example, Linux DNS resolution is an arcane mess of upstream…

NMBD and WINS name resolutions are dead on Windows too; normal DNS is used since the AD was introduced. For service discovery, WSD is supposed to be used now, Windows 10 and Windows 2016/19 are slowly killing SMB1. Windows itself doesn't really play nice with mDNS/DNS-SD (Bonjour).