Earlier quoted context omitted.
Convicted , sure. Upthread you said: > Most likely, you didn't know about the evils of Jeffrey Epstein until a Miami Herald reporter started to dig into the story, and then got picked up by national papers. Had that not have happened, most people to this day would still think he's probably an "A OK dude." But I would heartily disagree with that. Allegations of sexual assault of minors had been public from 2008 on, an…
> (Also, honestly, isn't a single instance of knowing solicitation of a minor enough?) Technically, it puts some of the blame on the underage girl, because she then becomes a "prostitute". Hence, she was at least half to blame. Hell, he could even have said: "I didn't know she was underage..." And a lot of guys would believe him. The fact that she was trafficked instead completely changes the issue. She was never a "…
The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
111–120 of 122 posts
Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#112Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
How so? I think concealing the origin is the right thing especially if you know the person is awful and you don't want to reward them with reputation points. Bottom line, I think a donation, an idea, a contribution is useful even if it comes from an awful source, but the problem lies in whether you reward/enable the source's awfulness. I think that's the argument to make, as opposed to just focusing on whether the so…
The right thing to do is not taking the money. There are plenty of other places you can get money from. The recipient may not get formal 'reputation points' but you are overlooking informal social networks in which such things are widely known but not talked about. If you have a bad reputation, financial inducements to silence people can be just as valuable if not more so as positive public remarks are to a person of…
If we said this must be prevented because the donor is not a truly ethical selfless person, there would be much less money going to good causes. And who would be the judge of which of us is good enough to be allowed to donate to charities?
Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#114When somebody does something good we shouldn't say "That must not be allowed because he is only trying to make himself look good".
Rather than try to prevent bad people from doing good things, we should try to do good things ourselves.
Condemning somebody else is a way to make yourself look good. How? When you say that someone else is bad you are implicitly claiming that YOU are not (that) bad. And you are just spending energy (if not money) to prop up your reputation. That is in fact kinda unethical because you are in fact doing nothing good to anybody else than yourself, just polishing your halo, by pointing out how bad some other people are.
Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
It does when you know the donor is awful and you conceal the origin of the donation.
How so? I think concealing the origin is the right thing especially if you know the person is awful and you don't want to reward them with reputation points. Bottom line, I think a donation, an idea, a contribution is useful even if it comes from an awful source, but the problem lies in whether you reward/enable the source's awfulness. I think that's the argument to make, as opposed to just focusing on whether the so…
Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> (Also, honestly, isn't a single instance of knowing solicitation of a minor enough?) Technically, it puts some of the blame on the underage girl, because she then becomes a "prostitute". Hence, she was at least half to blame. Hell, he could even have said: "I didn't know she was underage..." And a lot of guys would believe him. The fact that she was trafficked instead completely changes the issue. She was never a "…
I vehemently disagree with your stated opinion that a 14-year old girl who is statutorily raped by a man in his 50s is "at least half to blame" about anything.
If it was child abuse, they would have charged him with abuse. They basically called her a "prostitute" from the charges suggesting that she was at least partly to blame.
Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Back in 2008, Epstein was convicted of a single prostitution charge [1]. The word "trafficking" doesn't even appear in that story. It makes it sound like Epstein had a weak moment frankly. It was only after the Miami Herald story came out did we learn about the child trafficking that took place -- and then this year it became a huge national story. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/business/01epstein.html
I'm not sure the trafficking was even on the radar at that point. The legal proceedings didn't even start yet. It's no wonder it's not on Wikipedia then.
But it's still unclear why the US attorney's office refused to investigate the other cases and offered him a sweetheart deal. In any case, the 2008 charges made it sound like he was just looking for sex, not running a child trafficking ring.
Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#118Just seems to be using this event to rant about stuff they were already upset about. The first name mentioned is Marc Zuckerburg, who has nothing to do with the actual scandal. This is hardly the first charity scandal related to accepting donations from questionable donors. The issue predates electricity, let alone modern tech companies.
In your interpretation:
1) What is the motivation of the donor (Epstein)?
2) What is the motivation of the acceptor (Ito)?
If your answer is
1) Prestige
2) Money
Then that does not work: they can not reach a mutual understanding about whether Epstein is allowed tell the world he donates to the Media Lab, which can be seen by splitting up in cases:
1) if the mutual understanding is that Epstein is allowed to tell the world he donates to Media Lab : in this case Ito's motive evaporates, because he was fully aware and scared shitless of Epstein's name getting associated with the Media Lab.
2) if the mutual understanding is that Epstein can not tell the world he donates to Media Lab : in this case Epstein's motive evaporates, since it doesn't raise his prestige.
So all the authors of these articles are systematically individually either unintentionally overseeing the inconsistency, or intentionally obscuring a deeper fact.
Let's hypothesize it's for the tax deductions for the root donors (like Bill Gates etc.) instead: this too doesn't make sense, if you find a scheme for tax deductions etc by donating, why not donate directly? if for some reason the tax scheme can only work with an intermediary... why on earth select a radioactive person like Epstein?
So the tax evasion angle is misdirecting chaff too...
Consider that many of the unrecognized victim(s) of Epstein (and the buyers of his underage prostitution ring) are now adult. Consider the typical promises that were made to these girls (money, and future prospects). Many of these girls are adult women today, possibly studying, PhD studying or working. If some of the girls insist on studying some place, Epstein needs to pipe hush money, scholarship, salaries into the faculties and departments.
My interpretation is that it is hush money.
Bill Gates is not shy, he openly donates to many causes. He wrote books etc...
Before this scandal there was nothing controversial about the Media Lab, so why would he donate anonymously?
Even if he insisted to donate anonymously, why donate through Epstein? Bill Gates should be smarter than that, why are we holding Ito to a higher standard than Gates? If Ito & Co were handling the connection with Epstein with radioactive precaution, why didn't Bill Gates geiger counter crackle beyond repair?
And why on earth would Gates pay off someone else's hush money?
Suppose Gates paid hush money (or was blackmailed by) Epstein for services rendered (say in a somewhat distant past) to forward the hush money to the victim(s) at Media Lab.
That could also explain why Gates would go through Epstein: if he paid the Media Lab directly, the shorter connection towards the victim(s) might be construed as a financial acknowledgement of his involvement with the victim.
It also explains why he would go through Epstein as opposed to involving a clean person: the clean new intermediary between the Media Lab and Gates would be an extra point of failure who could leak the secret.
While it might be relatively easy for the "already-did-his-time" Epstein to find a lab or department head, and convince him with his crocodile tears to cooperate in a cloak of charity to pipe the "compensations" ( hush money, work position salary for the victim ) through the department head.
Instead we have Big Media suddenly (and suspicously) spinning stories and redirecting attention to either academic vaporware like growboxes from the Media Lab, or "billionaire circuits" naturally attracting male and female "deplorables". (which is just slutshaming all over again!)
Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#119Just seems to be using this event to rant about stuff they were already upset about. The first name mentioned is Marc Zuckerburg, who has nothing to do with the actual scandal. This is hardly the first charity scandal related to accepting donations from questionable donors. The issue predates electricity, let alone modern tech companies.
I am still genuinely trying to understand what happened. In your interpretation: 1) What is the motivation of the donor (Epstein)? 2) What is the motivation of the acceptor (Ito)? If your answer is 1) Prestige 2) Money Then that does not work: they can not reach a mutual understanding about whether Epstein is allowed tell the world he donates to the Media Lab, which can be seen by splitting up in cases: 1) if the mut…
Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where is the line? If you stole something at 16 does that mean you're to be shunned from society forever? Is the line rape? Is it murder? Sexual assault? Being a nazi? Being a conservative? Being a liberal? Associating with someone in the shunned group? And what aren't we allowed to do with these people? Accept their money? Talk to them? Have dinner with them? Be in the same room as them? Same building? Be friends wi…
You can begin to talk about rehabilitating abhorrent people only after they've demonstrated some contrition for their actions and growth towards being better. By all accounts, Epstein showed none of that.
I struggle with this because I think I want someone I can never have. I require an omniscient AGI just to figure out if people are sorry or not.
I’m not sure how many museums you have to found to make up for opioid deaths or child sex trafficking. Fortunately, I don’t think I’ll ever be qualified or required to make these kinds of decisions.