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The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

theguardian.com

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Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#101

Post by deogeo »

coldtea wrote: post #90
whatshisface wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still missing a crucial ingredient: you have to demonstrate that your list of events is an unbiased sampling of all relevant events, as opposed to a cherry-picked list of useful events. For example, it would not be an "empirical argument" to convince everybody that a coin was unfair by publishing an article whenever it came up heads. An example isn't evidence, and a list of examples aren't evidence. Evidence is…

> It's still missing a crucial ingredient: you have to demonstrate that your list of events is an unbiased sampling of all relevant events, as opposed to a cherry-picked list of useful events. That's if you're writing a paper. If you're making an empirical observation in the real world, the demands are much less rigorous, and if one can't tell what's going on without first demonstrating "that your list of events is a…

> If you're making an empirical observation in the real world, the demands are much less rigorous

The demands are only less rigorous when you agree with the conclusion. Link an article from a racist website dedicated to black-on-white crime (that ignores other crime), and watch as the demands suddenly become much more rigorous.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#102

Post by rowanG077 »

human20190310 wrote: post #95
rowanG077 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any proof to your claim?

The Washington Post did a piece on the unusual handling of Epstein's case, e.g. having his case reviewed at the highest level of the Justice Department in an attempt to overrule the Miami prosecutors: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/the-pressure-o...

I can't view this for some reason. Is there an alternative where I can read this article?

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#103

Post by mistermann »

coldtea wrote: post #86

Why techno elites? All elites (political, financial, tech, medicine, etc) are morally bankrupt. They're like regular people, but with power and money, both known corruptors, reduced empathy [1], and all the motivations to increase their reach. And they were probably quite psycho which helped them get at the elite level to begin with [2]... [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduce... [2] https:…

Techno elites often project an air of moral superiority where others are mostly silent would be my guess.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#104

Post by andybak »

coldtea wrote: post #86

Why techno elites? All elites (political, financial, tech, medicine, etc) are morally bankrupt. They're like regular people, but with power and money, both known corruptors, reduced empathy [1], and all the motivations to increase their reach. And they were probably quite psycho which helped them get at the elite level to begin with [2]... [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduce... [2] https:…

Maybe the contradiction is thus:

1. We expect people higher up the status ladder to behave better than most people.

2. Getting higher up the status ladder probably means you are statistically likely to be "worse" than most people by virtue of the traits it requires to get there.

(Please excuse the "better/worse" shorthand but you all know what I mean)

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#105

Post by andybak »

howeyc wrote: post #58

New charity donation questionnaire for prospective donors... Have you: * Engaged in any activities the general public would find reprehensible? * Plan on doing so in the future? Are you: * Generally disliked by the general public? * Possibly going to be targeted by public outrage at some point? --- If you answered yes to any of the above, we regret to inform you that your charitable donation cannot be accepted.

I think the first set of criteria are entirely valid. The second half of your post might require more background information.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#106

Post by bb88 »

loeg wrote: post #85
bb88 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in 2008, Epstein was convicted of a single prostitution charge [1]. The word "trafficking" doesn't even appear in that story. It makes it sound like Epstein had a weak moment frankly. It was only after the Miami Herald story came out did we learn about the child trafficking that took place -- and then this year it became a huge national story. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/business/01epstein.html

Convicted , sure. Upthread you said: > Most likely, you didn't know about the evils of Jeffrey Epstein until a Miami Herald reporter started to dig into the story, and then got picked up by national papers. Had that not have happened, most people to this day would still think he's probably an "A OK dude." But I would heartily disagree with that. Allegations of sexual assault of minors had been public from 2008 on, an…

> (Also, honestly, isn't a single instance of knowing solicitation of a minor enough?)

Technically, it puts some of the blame on the underage girl, because she then becomes a "prostitute". Hence, she was at least half to blame. Hell, he could even have said: "I didn't know she was underage..." And a lot of guys would believe him.

The fact that she was trafficked instead completely changes the issue. She was never a "prostitute", and he was a bigger sleazeball than we realized.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#107

Post by bb88 »

loeg wrote: post #99
bb88 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See how easy it works? :) I haven't even given you the strings that are attached with the money.

You haven't given me the money either.

But yet, why are you so eager to get the money?

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#108

Post by skybrian »

tempsy wrote: post #11
rowanG077 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Epstein funding some research washes him of his past transgressions? I have never heard anyone say that. Nor do I think we should stop people that have done wrong from doing right afterwards because it could "wash their reputations from past transgressions". We have something called the law that should bring justice to people.

I think you are more naive than you think. Think for a second. The most egregious example of this is the Sackler family's ( Purdue Pharma/Opioids) massive donations to the arts/museums. They should not receive the glory and praise for their generosity to the arts for triggering the deaths of so many Americans in the pursuit of drug profits.

How did Epstein benefit from making anonymous donations? It seems like there's something about this that we still don't understand.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#109

Post by anigbrowl »

AYBABTME wrote: post #96
anigbrowl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does when you know the donor is awful and you conceal the origin of the donation.

How so? I think concealing the origin is the right thing especially if you know the person is awful and you don't want to reward them with reputation points. Bottom line, I think a donation, an idea, a contribution is useful even if it comes from an awful source, but the problem lies in whether you reward/enable the source's awfulness. I think that's the argument to make, as opposed to just focusing on whether the so…

The right thing to do is not taking the money. There are plenty of other places you can get money from. The recipient may not get formal 'reputation points' but you are overlooking informal social networks in which such things are widely known but not talked about. If you have a bad reputation, financial inducements to silence people can be just as valuable if not more so as positive public remarks are to a person of ordinarily decent reputation.

As I said on another thread, if you really want to donate anonymously to a good cause, you just call a lawyer and pay a small fee to have them to submit it on your behalf.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#110

Post by anigbrowl »

rowanG077 wrote: post #88
anigbrowl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is what Epstein's background had to do with it: there's good reason to think that much of his wealth came from blackmailing other people that he encountered or lured into the circles of organized sexual abuse, and that this fact was widely known. That's why Ito at the MIT media lab wrote to his colleagues that epstein's donations should be listed as 'anonymous' to minimize the scrutiny thereof. If you are having…

The problem was Ito accepting donations from a black listed person. Nothing more nothing less. Ito wasn't in the position to make that call.

Yes he was. If he felt conflicted about it he should have resigned then, rather than doing so just now after his involvement was publicly exposed. I wish you would half as hard at trying to understand this as you do at refuting it; I can't bear to continue this conversation further.
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