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In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

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Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#111

Post by drcode »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #8

> In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs. It is relying less on the criminal justice toolbox to deal with hard drugs and more on the public health toolbox. America's puritanical urges result in more self-harm than anything else. So much of the way our nation is structured is based on some ancient idea that you have to live clean and work hard in order to get to heaven. That is combined with a sen…

If you think there is more drug-related crime and public heroin injections in "puritan" US cities like Seattle vs European cities like Frankfurt or Amsterdam... you must not travel very much.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#112

Post by vkou »

dymk wrote: post #33
vkou wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the people who aren't running around with pitchforks who have been diverted out of the addiction to prison pipeline? Would you rather be paying $100,000+ a year/person to judge and jail them for the crime of being addicted while poor? (I've yet to see people entering that pipeline for the crime of being addicted while rich.)

Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said, and a really weird dichotomy to boot. I said that these violent addicts are refusing offered social services , yet we let them walk around and continue to harm the public.

> Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said,

No, it's not.

What you said, in response to the article was:

> I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light.

The implication here is that redirecting non-violent addicts off the addiction --> prison pipeline was a policy mistake.

I ask why you think that non-violent addicts should be put into prison. You tell me I'm grossly misrepresenting your point of view.

Which point of view do you actually hold? Do you think that non-violent addicts should be provided with help, or prison? Pick one, and own it.

I don't care one whit about your opinions on violent people in public spaces. I doubt they differ from mine, and it's not an interesting conversation.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#113

Post by cultofmetatron »

dymk wrote: post #33
vkou wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the people who aren't running around with pitchforks who have been diverted out of the addiction to prison pipeline? Would you rather be paying $100,000+ a year/person to judge and jail them for the crime of being addicted while poor? (I've yet to see people entering that pipeline for the crime of being addicted while rich.)

Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said, and a really weird dichotomy to boot. I said that these violent addicts are refusing offered social services , yet we let them walk around and continue to harm the public.

I concur. its easy to feel sympathy for these addicts till you have to deal with them day by day. In the end I left san Francisco because of the constant badgering from homeless people and the waste they would leave everywhere. This is also an issue I've only really seen in America, the homeless in Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur that I encountered were super polite and conscientious by comparison.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#114

Post by entropea »

throwaway827364 wrote: post #9
allana wrote: post #3

As much as the Seattle Chamber of Commerce and the local Sinclair affiliates might scream that Seattle is wrecked, people and businesses are still moving here, our economy is growing, and massive redevelopment is occuring. One other place to pay attention to is Shelton, WA, they have a very interesting communal approach to homelessness and providing services, which has built a strong community that wooed some of my f…

People move here and the economy is growing because of tech. Do any of these employers support the city of Seattle’s policies on allowing people to openly shoot up in the streets?

You sound like you walk around in daylight just seeing people shooting up on every street. Its absolutely not true. Its actually really tough to find someone shooting drugs unless you're really looking at night hours. It's honestly not as big of an issue as Sinclair makes it out to be.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#115

Post by allana »

empath75 wrote: post #24
allana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have sufficent funding of social services to provide navigation teams and counselors to all of the visibly homeless (those you see on the street), never mind the thousands living in their cars in Seattle (the invisible homeless). Seattle is doing what it can, but we need state and federal action to go further. We can't single handedly solve the severe wealth stratification that is worsening day by day :c

or you know, Amazon and Microsoft could throw in some cash.

Microsoft advocated for a tax on very large companies to fund social services to break the cycle of poverty leading to lack of opportunity for our youth: https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2019/07/21/amazon-m...

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#116

Post by timdev2 »

paggle wrote: post #30
dymk wrote: post #7

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public services, and they refuse them, because many of our "tiny villages" have no-drug-use policies, which they will not abide by. My city has one of the worst problems with repeat violent drug addicts in the nation (perhaps aside from the Bay) and yet we refuse to jail…

Just looked up the hot coffee case. It could only happen in a city with strict gun laws. In Texas someone would have enacted his sheriff fantasies on this perpetrator a long time ago.

What strict gun laws in Seattle are you referring to, exactly?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#117

Post by Miner49er »

awakeasleep wrote: post #104
notus wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solving community problems come with community sacrifices. I'm a big proponent of housing first, drug rehab second. It is exponentially harder to get clean without housing and a support network. Decriminalizing drug addiction is a good step in that direction IMO. I think another side of this coin though is we need to bring back institutionalization of mental health care. Implemented today it would be vastly different…

Housing first is effective for people who want our idea of a 'normal lifestyle' I think people in this thread are asking you to question your assumption- do you think every drug addict on the west coast wants to hold down a job and live our normal life?

Why are you assuming that giving a person a house means they have to have a normal life? Can't they live in the house and continue not to have a job and continue living a non-normal life and get clean too?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#118

Post by taurath »

dymk wrote: post #74
taurath wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any statistics to back that up (violence rate)? I don’t feel like anecdotes make for good conversation here.

Do you need statistics to tell you that it's wrong to not prosecute violent repeat offenders?

Gimme the details then? How did it happen? What was the justification if any? Did it actually happen?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#119

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

dymk wrote: post #54
mieseratte wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He keeps failing at doing so, and the cops say "Can't do anything, he hasn't actually thrown somebody off". How does that play out such that they can't get him on some type of assault / harassment? Is he politely asking these women if they would like to be thrown off the overpass and politely walking off when they demur?

Oh sorry, they actually can do something; in fact they've caught-and-released this guy three times before finally saying "Maybe he is dangerous": https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-att... But I'm not holding my breath for them to actually put him away, given their past decisions to not separate him from the public.

From that article:

> Charges for the first three assaults were dismissed by the City of Seattle because of mental health concerns, prosecutors said in the charging papers.

Jesus, WTF? If he is attacking people because of mental illness, why isn't he locked up in a mental hospital? "Sorry, you attacked people but you're crazy, so have a nice day!" And why is trying to throw someone off an overpass charged with assault and not with attempted murder?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#120

Post by UnpossibleJim »

asdfgasd wrote: post #103
malandrew wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and shame everyone who dares to complain. And then watch at they turn on you by quietly voting for your opponents in greater and greater numbers as the problem worsens.

Why don't you offer an alternative solution then? Throwing the homeless people in jail is ineffective and immoral. If your solution is drug treatment programs, great, but then don't argue against raising taxes to pay for them.

Seattle loves to pass new taxes that are "supposed" to go towards certain things (and do for a year or two), but then end up in a general fund. Just like the tobacco tax, the alcohol tax and the marijuana tax. These were all supposed to go towards roads and schools, at one point and, yet didn't.
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