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India tiger census shows rapid population growth

bbc.com

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Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#111

Post by puranjay »

godelmachine wrote: post #110
puranjay wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a video circulating around a few weeks back of a guy on a bike riding through a forest when a tiger came charging towards him. Absolutely terror-inducing footage. Those things are FAST!

Are you talking about this? https://youtu.be/CZwcZ-94wdo That fella is lucky, looks like the tigress decided to cut her chase midway, else with that speed, the cameraman was a goner.

Yup! Couldn't find the link somehow.

Don't think the tigress cut the chase midway. Rather, the sudden change of surface from forest to tarmac affected her grip.

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#112

Post by ignoramous »

kranner wrote: post #102
ignoramous wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> insinuation in your comment that it was ignorant villagers who killed I'm sorry but I don't see which sentence makes you think that: esp the ignorant villagers part. > hunted down by the British and the local Maharajas for "sport" The article too points this out. And at the Raj Mahals (Palaces of the Kings) of the Mysore State there was indeed a display of photographs, pictures of Tiger kills by not just the Rajas…

> Additionally, it wasn't uncommon to have Tigers killed, back then, due to danger to human lives. And the Tiger hunters were celebrated heroes. But then why do you say in your previous comment that there is an overwhelming sense of guilt in the public psyche? There is no such guilt; people are largely indifferent.

> But then why do you say in your previous comment that there is an overwhelming sense of guilt in the public psyche?

The amount of media coverage on Bengal Tigers, the outrage at decline in numbers in 1990s (?), the despair today when a Tiger dies in vain or is locked up [0], plus a handful of Indians commenting on their rendezvous with the beast and other related stories in this very thread speak for themselves, don't they?

All major Indian newspapers carried this bit on the front pages. And everyone I've come across has an opinion about it, I don't see the indifference that you speak of. That said, I realise that I cannot speak for the entirety of the vast Indian populace... But the signs that the majority care are ominous, to me.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-24_(tiger)

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#113

Post by Lio »

xwdv wrote: post #14

Tigers are twice as heavy as lions but still the same size. With a single swipe of a claw, a tiger was able to slit a lion’s throat, killing it instantly.

To me arguing about which is better lions or tigers is like arguing about what's the best colour (it's blue by the way!).

Every species on the brink of extinction is important in ways we don't yet understand. We need to save everything because we won't see it's like again.

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#114

Post by lake99 »

kranner wrote: post #102
ignoramous wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> insinuation in your comment that it was ignorant villagers who killed I'm sorry but I don't see which sentence makes you think that: esp the ignorant villagers part. > hunted down by the British and the local Maharajas for "sport" The article too points this out. And at the Raj Mahals (Palaces of the Kings) of the Mysore State there was indeed a display of photographs, pictures of Tiger kills by not just the Rajas…

> Additionally, it wasn't uncommon to have Tigers killed, back then, due to danger to human lives. And the Tiger hunters were celebrated heroes. But then why do you say in your previous comment that there is an overwhelming sense of guilt in the public psyche? There is no such guilt; people are largely indifferent.

> people are largely indifferent.

Count me among them. While I'd be happy with rising tiger populations in specific tiger reserves, I do not want them roaming towns like leopards do these days [1][2].

[1] https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/udaipur/leopard-mau...

[2] https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/dehradun/leopard-en...

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#115

Post by alexhutcheson »

sidibe wrote: post #95
bozoUser wrote: post #38

This is such a welcome news and a great start to the week! But with the recent news about a tigress beaten to death in India and after coming across some videos in the social media on the tiger encounters with humans, I hope the Indian govt. also works on bolstering education and awareness campaigns across the rural population on the man vs animal encounters and also works towards preserving the forests where these e…

I don't know if any amount of "awareness" is going to stop the people who live near them from revenge killings of man-eaters. Hard to blame them honestly. Tiger population growth means more people live next to them. And on the internet we'll argue that it's because there's too many people but they'll expand into whatever territory they're ceded and someone is always going to have to live near them.

Craig Packer (former director of the Serengeti Lion Project) has been a big advocate of fencing in the national parks in Africa to prevent this sort of human-wildlife conflict.

Here's his original paper: https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1111/ele.12091

And here is an interview with a more high-level explanation: https://www.minnpost.com/earth-journal/2013/04/minnesota-res...

It's very controversial, but similar principles would apply in India to minimize human-tiger conflict. At least some of the tiger reserves are already fenced in, but I don't believe all of them are.

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#116

Post by kranner »

ignoramous wrote: post #112
kranner wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Additionally, it wasn't uncommon to have Tigers killed, back then, due to danger to human lives. And the Tiger hunters were celebrated heroes. But then why do you say in your previous comment that there is an overwhelming sense of guilt in the public psyche? There is no such guilt; people are largely indifferent.

> But then why do you say in your previous comment that there is an overwhelming sense of guilt in the public psyche? The amount of media coverage on Bengal Tigers, the outrage at decline in numbers in 1990s (?), the despair today when a Tiger dies in vain or is locked up [0], plus a handful of Indians commenting on their rendezvous with the beast and other related stories in this very thread speak for themselves, do…

If you say something weighs on the Indian psyche, it does seem that you are making a statement that holds true for a large majority of Indian people, not just a handful of individuals.

Also, why would anyone who was not directly or indirectly involved in hunting tigers feel guilty, of all things? Sad, certainly, but guilty is a stretch.

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#117

Post by pbhjpbhj »

rebuilder wrote: post #30
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #22

>But there has also been an increase in human-tiger conflict recently and one reason is that India has too many tigers and too few forests that can sustain them unless more protected reserves are added. // So they've stopped people killing them, but haven't unfortunately, it seems, been able to address the issue that leads to people killing them. Presumably at some point the forest area needs to increase, or people w…

If conditions are good, the tigers will presumably increase in number to fill any additional forest area available to them, as well. So I expect the best-case scenario is to provide enough reserved land for the tiger population to be at a safe size, and maintain that population by culling if needed.

They'd only adopt all forest if food was limitless, they're going to reduce their growth below replacement by over-predation before they inhabit the entire World. It's possible that forest increase would see a commensurate increase in prey, but it's not a given, I imagine.

You sound spot on with the culling, population management is a complex problem given the tendency towards chaos for such systems.

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#118

Post by ignoramous »

kranner wrote: post #116
ignoramous wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then why do you say in your previous comment that there is an overwhelming sense of guilt in the public psyche? The amount of media coverage on Bengal Tigers, the outrage at decline in numbers in 1990s (?), the despair today when a Tiger dies in vain or is locked up [0], plus a handful of Indians commenting on their rendezvous with the beast and other related stories in this very thread speak for themselves, do…

If you say something weighs on the Indian psyche, it does seem that you are making a statement that holds true for a large majority of Indian people, not just a handful of individuals. Also, why would anyone who was not directly or indirectly involved in hunting tigers feel guilty , of all things? Sad, certainly, but guilty is a stretch.

I've shared multiple links, pointed out various facts, and even called your attention to the comments in this very thread for you to guage what I mean.

If you choose to ignore that and nitpick on pedantic meaning of words, then so be it. I'm going to stop taking the bait, sorry.

> why would anyone who was not directly or indirectly involved in hunting tigers feel guilty, of all things?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_(emotion)#Collective_gui...

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#119

Post by kranner »

ignoramous wrote: post #118
kranner wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you say something weighs on the Indian psyche, it does seem that you are making a statement that holds true for a large majority of Indian people, not just a handful of individuals. Also, why would anyone who was not directly or indirectly involved in hunting tigers feel guilty , of all things? Sad, certainly, but guilty is a stretch.

I've shared multiple links, pointed out various facts, and even called your attention to the comments in this very thread for you to guage what I mean. If you choose to ignore that and nitpick on pedantic meaning of words, then so be it. I'm going to stop taking the bait, sorry. > why would anyone who was not directly or indirectly involved in hunting tigers feel guilty, of all things? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G…

Nitpicking? No, you made the following statement. I’m saying it is entirely false.

> This isn't an exaggeration: Tigers are interwoven in to the Indian (and Bangladeshi?) psyche [0] owing mostly to the overwhelming guilt of almost singlehandedly causing extinction of these beasts.

If there is any such thing as a general Indian psyche, it is unburdened with concerns of tigers dying off. The Indian people are more concerned with mass unemployment, droughts, floods and poverty. Also, kindly do not suggest that I’m trolling you in any way. I sincerely believe that you are making an incorrect representation about how concerned Indians are with tigers.

Your references to a Kipling story and a Blake poem are completely irrelevant. Newspapers give coverage but where is the mass outrage or outpouring of sorrow or regret? If there was any you haven’t linked to it.

Re: India tiger census shows rapid population growth

#120

Post by ignoramous »

kranner wrote: post #119
ignoramous wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've shared multiple links, pointed out various facts, and even called your attention to the comments in this very thread for you to guage what I mean. If you choose to ignore that and nitpick on pedantic meaning of words, then so be it. I'm going to stop taking the bait, sorry. > why would anyone who was not directly or indirectly involved in hunting tigers feel guilty, of all things? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G…

Nitpicking? No, you made the following statement. I’m saying it is entirely false. > This isn't an exaggeration: Tigers are interwoven in to the Indian (and Bangladeshi?) psyche [0] owing mostly to the overwhelming guilt of almost singlehandedly causing extinction of these beasts. If there is any such thing as a general Indian psyche, it is unburdened with concerns of tigers dying off. The Indian people are more conc…

> where is the mass outrage or outpouring of sorrow or regret? If there was any you haven’t linked to it.

Pls read the Wikipedia entries on Tigers, T-24 and T-16, see the referenced articles therein.

> general Indian psyche, it is unburdened with concerns of tigers dying off. The Indian people are more concerned with mass unemployment, droughts, floods and poverty.

Non sequitur.

> Your references to a Kipling story and a Blake poem are completely irrelevant.

> Also, kindly do not suggest that I’m trolling you in any way.

?

> I sincerely believe that you are making an incorrect representation about how concerned Indians are with tigers.

I've shared links to back my claims. And I hear your opinion loud and clear, too. Can we pls agree to disagree and put this to rest?

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