Given that VW was caught cheating emissions on a global scale, and far worse than other carmakers, i find it surprising that anyone on hackernews would consider buying their cars.
"Since the Volkswagen 'Dieselgate' emissions cheating scandal broke in September 2015, nearly every major automaker including--Daimler, General Motors, Suzuki and Mitsubishi have all been caught up in falsifying fuel economy figures or cheating on emissions testing." I am not justifying VW's actions, but it's pretty obvious to any critical reader of news articles that VW was just the unlucky one whose head met the ch…
VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance
111–117 of 117 posts
Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Stopping every 2-3 hours for a half hour on a long road trip seems downright crazy to me. It seems crazy to you because you haven't done it. It seems perfectly normal and acceptable to people who drive Teslas over long distances. I see people going for lunch, shopping, sightseeing at Superchargers. If you know you'll have to wait 20+ minutes, you just find something to do instead of biting your fingernails.
SO basically, if you adjust your behavior to match the car, it will, eventually, get you where you're going. And if you really want to enjoy lunch and sightseeing at such beautiful places as the Supercharger station in Kettleman City. Not everyone is willing to make these tradeoffs, especially for a car that costs twice as much as a comparable ICE one.
You'll find out eventually.
Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
SO basically, if you adjust your behavior to match the car, it will, eventually, get you where you're going. And if you really want to enjoy lunch and sightseeing at such beautiful places as the Supercharger station in Kettleman City. Not everyone is willing to make these tradeoffs, especially for a car that costs twice as much as a comparable ICE one.
This is going nowhere really. When I had an ICE car, I never drove 12+ hours/day because it was too exhausting. Now I've done 5 such trips in the past 8 months alone and it was no issue because the breaks and AP keep me refreshed. And there's no comparable ICE car because they are all noisy, smelly and uncomfortable, while most are much slower too (acceleration). Also, there's Sentry Mode: https://www.youtube.com/wat…
Sure, Tesla has pretty good acceleration (other than the roadster, nothing you couldn't get with an ICE). When I was 20 years younger, I might have even cared. Now I am somehow more interested in meaningful comforts and conveniences, and outside of the SV gaggle of kids who thing that being a computer on wheels, with a big screen means that Tesla is a "luxury" car, presenting even Model S as somehow competing with any of the big name luxury brands is just laughable. Hell, even my wife's Hyundai plug-in has things that you can't get in any Tesla. For half the price. Well, but Tesla has fart jokes. I'll take colled seats, thank you very much.
I wouldn't even start with the AP, it's not any better than anybody else's driver assist systems. Except when it drives you into a fire truck or median barrier, of course. Then it could be considered a natural selection tool, I guess /s
FWIW, in the same period I did 2 2000+ mile drives, and a few in 300-500 range, and in all of them I needed to actually get where I was going in some reasonable time. Maybe with stops at some vista points, but those generally do not have superchargers anywhere near. Could I make it in a Tesla? Sure. I could make it in a Leaf probably, too. It would just take significantly more time, and I would need to spend much more time at places that have chargers, and those (just like places with gas stations on the Interstate) usually aren't all that exiting.
For Tesla's target market, people with more money than actual need for a car as a tool, it actually all makes sense and works quite well. But I somehow doubt that this market is large enough to "drive German automakers out of business in 2 years" as some claim here, or even to make a significant dent in ICE car sales, absent some drastic legal or tax pressure.
Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is going nowhere really. When I had an ICE car, I never drove 12+ hours/day because it was too exhausting. Now I've done 5 such trips in the past 8 months alone and it was no issue because the breaks and AP keep me refreshed. And there's no comparable ICE car because they are all noisy, smelly and uncomfortable, while most are much slower too (acceleration). Also, there's Sentry Mode: https://www.youtube.com/wat…
LOL. Seriously. Can we please stop with this asinine assumption that only people who did not try a Tesla can possibly dislike them? It got old 5 years ago. Sure, Tesla has pretty good acceleration (other than the roadster, nothing you couldn't get with an ICE). When I was 20 years younger, I might have even cared. Now I am somehow more interested in meaningful comforts and conveniences, and outside of the SV gaggle o…
Still works with everyone I tried. Do you know what really got old something like 7 years ago? The claim that you can't drive long distances in a Tesla. Hansjörg Gemmingen just reported hitting 900000 Km in his Model S (from 2015 I believe) after driving ~50000 Km in 2 months.
> Tesla has pretty good acceleration (other than the roadster, nothing you couldn't get with an ICE)
OK, how much is an ICE that gets the 2.6s 0-100 Km/h of the Model S Performance? And what comfort does it offer?
> FWIW, in the same period I did 2 2000+ mile drives
In 1 day? Impressive. Or we are talking about completely different things.
> But I somehow doubt that this market is large enough to "drive German automakers out of business in 2 years" as some claim here, or even to make a significant dent in ICE car sales, absent some drastic legal or tax pressure.
German newspapers already reported on recent losses by Daimer, BMW and explicitly mentioned EV (and their failing transition) as one reason.
Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
LOL. Seriously. Can we please stop with this asinine assumption that only people who did not try a Tesla can possibly dislike them? It got old 5 years ago. Sure, Tesla has pretty good acceleration (other than the roadster, nothing you couldn't get with an ICE). When I was 20 years younger, I might have even cared. Now I am somehow more interested in meaningful comforts and conveniences, and outside of the SV gaggle o…
> Can we please stop with this asinine assumption that only people who did not try a Tesla can possibly dislike them? It got old 5 years ago. Still works with everyone I tried. Do you know what really got old something like 7 years ago? The claim that you can't drive long distances in a Tesla. Hansjörg Gemmingen just reported hitting 900000 Km in his Model S (from 2015 I believe) after driving ~50000 Km in 2 months.…
I've never heard anyone say that you can't drive long distance in an electric car. The difference is how long will it take you.
Isn't 2.6 sec 0-60 something you only get with the "ludicrous" upgrade, where it counts how often you actually use it? There are faster ICE cars.
Good God, no, I don't think you can even do 2000 miles in a day (if you ever sleep) while staying even remotely legal. But I did quite a few San Jose to Las Vegas drives in 8 hours. 2000+ were when I first drove my wife's car from San Jose to Austin, which took me 2 days. Bloody thing goes 600+ miles on a tank, which is more than I can take. Could that be done in a Tesla? Sure, but it would take longer and involve planning the trip around chargers even if they were everywhere. Second time I was moving my car, which is technically faster, but has more reasonable mileage, and made two long stops, but only because instead of morning, as planned, left in the evening (apparently if an SV apartment complex says that the rental office is open on a Saturday, it does not mean that anyone will actually be there to give the keys to). It was still much faster than would be possible in anything you need to charge. And somehow all the interesting little spots where I felt like stopping and taking pictures didn't have any Superchargers anywhere near. Nor, often, any gas stations.
Automakers were regularly having losses long before there were any Tesla to blame.
It's pretty clear that ICE will be replaced by something, quite possibly electric, at some point in the future, and they need to prepare for it, but pretending that in 2 years electric cars will be anything but a statistical error in the number of cars sold, let alone that anyone is going out of business over it, is just a load of wishful thinking SV BS.
Then, of course, I just don't understand how anyone can, in a good consciousness, give Elon even a red cent.
Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla is ahead in many regards but they are too debt laden for a buyout at this point. A larger player would be smart to wait until the economy turns and Tesla can no longer meet debt obligations, then buy them out of bankruptcy.
> they are too debt laden for a buyout at this point Enterprise value is indifferent to capital structure. A leverage-sensitive buyer would buy out the high-yielding debt in addition to the equity. Purchasing out of bankruptcy is riskier, in many levels, compared with a negotiated sale.
Re: VW invests $2.6B in self-driving startup Argo AI as part of Ford alliance
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
What aspect of two competitors cooperating to compete against a third in a market where there are no clear winners yet, merits an antitrust investigation?
There are already several other big SDC alliances like Honda / GM Cruise, Toyota / Uber, and even the three-way Nissan-Renault / Jaguar Landrover / Waymo.