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Assholes: A Probing Examination

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Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#111

Post by glangdale »

dusklight wrote: post #91
glangdale wrote: post #59

This article is overly fixated on overt assholery. Much of the worst asshole behavior I've encountered has been done by people who are outwardly polite and high functioning and have often never had a cross word for anyone. I would much rather get a tersely worded group email (ooo) than have to do someone else's job for them. Let's be frank. The #1 asshole thing not mentioned here is (shouting and swearing alert) NOT…

Eh at the very beginning of the article, the writer states that this article is exclusively about smart assholes, assholes who are good at their job. Someone who is not doing their job is not a smart asshole and is much more easily identified and removed.

You're not really addressing my point, which is that there's a big range of behaviors that are assholic and that some of them (as described in the article) are equally likely to be viewed as reactive to the behaviors of slack/lazy assholes (who are often smart and at least potentially good at their job).

If you think that it's always easy to identify and remove some asshole that's not doing their job, well, you're either not very experienced or you've had the good luck to only be in places with way more functional management than some of the places I've been in.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#112

Post by jotm »

ochronus wrote: post #72

MY. GOD. THE. WORDING. 'probing assholes' 'asshole examination' 'sniffing out assholes' I hope it was intentional.

Of course it was, look at the pictures :D

It would've been a punnier article if the subject was different... Or if the author wasn't wrong about half of the things (my subjective opinion).

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#113

Post by Hamuko »

accatyyc wrote: post #107
Hamuko wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Let's be frank. The #1 asshole thing not mentioned here is (shouting and swearing alert) NOT DOING YOUR FUCKING JOB. This is an immense source of frustration for other people, whether because they have to do the person's job for them, or because the person's failure to do their job creates disasters. One additional problem that I have with this: I feel like the asshole in this situation. I recall one instance where…

Why would informing people about the importance of testing make you look like an asshole? You could do it in a polite and helpful way, instead of being an asshole about it.

Well, the article in question called it an asshole thing to do.

>Publicly calling out and blaming others

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#114

Post by htkibar »

dusklight wrote: post #100
Iv wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I am an independent contractor mostly because I fled what I consider structural defects of the corporate world, so a bit biased. Isn't it a matter of management though? Assholes can be productive to a company if you have a good manager doing damage control and sinking time into firewalling the asshole. Given the prevalence of this disease and the abundance of managers, it seems like a good way to increase…

Why do you believe that the optimal point for a business is maintaining the employees on the edge of quitting? What are the pros and cons of doing this?

It seems to be a very simple way of looking at it: squeeze out as much as possible from the employee without losing the employee - hence on the edge of quitting.

However, I think it is way too simple to be useful. People who are happy and relatively less stressed are way more productive on average. (Yerkes - Dodson Law applies here)

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#115

Post by harryf »

mathieuh wrote: post #102
harryf wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh and the other thing I didn't see anyone address is teaching "victims" the right Ju-Jitsu for dealing with (intentional) assholes / bullying - the mindset of don't let anyone make you a victim. I had the "good fortune" of having an internship years ago with a tyrant. This person loved publicly shaming the interns, among a whole bunch of other toxic behaviour, continual needling etc. etc. Their life was a mess, marr…

This is just complete passive aggressiveness... just tell them to piss off (or some variation thereof), no need to do all this weird sarcastic stuff

I found that doesn't always work. Telling certain types of asshole directly telling them to piss off directly results in something like "I have _no idea_ what you're talking about? You're being too sensitive. And I find your rude/aggressive/whatever manner offensive...", all the while grinning slightly. Some even feed on the fact that they got you annoyed enough to confront them. With that comes exploiting the notion of qualifies as acceptable, professional behaviour such as getting emotional in response to bullying or threatening someone with "piss off or else..."

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#116

Post by jonathanstrange »

Dr_Dee wrote: post #106
jonathanstrange wrote: post #80

I checked how this test fares in Academia my country (I won't mention its name) and there seems to be a surprising number of assholes here. I'm even suspecting that I might be one. > Insulting or degrading individuals or groups Every boss in my country does this from time to time. -1 > Joking and teasing to belittle others My British colleagues do that, but otherwise it's rare. +1 > Tersely worded group e-mails that…

Once I had to call a Spanish academic about a payment to a software he wrote; we needed that software badly so instead of exchanging email, we called the 'professor' and had a conversation. Never in my life did I ever experienced a person who was so full of smugness and self-rightouness. So, I guess that southern european country is Spain because I have heard stories from people who worked there that Spanish can be q…

Portugal, so you're very close. IMHO, the cultures differ vastly between those countries, but in that respect they might be the same. Social hierarchies are a big thing here, one of the biggest downsides of an otherwise beautiful country. (As a tourist, you'd never notice any of this.)

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#117

Post by olgeni »

I always get the impression that it's "technical assholes" vs. "wise managers who should be brave enough to fire the assholes."

In practice: I see lots of assholes in management up to the director level, and the CEO doesn't do anything because they just hired their friends. Then, people just leave. Nobody cares because the issue of "tech assholes" is trendy these days.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#118

Post by nkohari »

harryf wrote: post #115
mathieuh wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just complete passive aggressiveness... just tell them to piss off (or some variation thereof), no need to do all this weird sarcastic stuff

I found that doesn't always work. Telling certain types of asshole directly telling them to piss off directly results in something like "I have _no idea_ what you're talking about? You're being too sensitive. And I find your rude/aggressive/whatever manner offensive...", all the while grinning slightly. Some even feed on the fact that they got you annoyed enough to confront them. With that comes exploiting the notion…

You might need to resort to this kind of childish stuff in grade school, but in the workplace, HR/management needs to step in and take care of it. The professional way to handle it is to directly address the person's behavior once, and then if it continues complain to HR/management in writing.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#119

Post by aasasd »

rodhilton wrote: post #33
jchw wrote: post #19

I really love the euphemisms/double entendres/word play. It definitely makes it more fun to read. One thing I realize as I read this is that, I’ve definitely engaged in certain ‘asshole behaviors’ at times. It’s been a long challenge to become more socially skilled and handle pressure/emotions better, but a lot of bad habits linger, I think. The worst habit of which is definitely complaining about coworkers to other…

>Another terrible habit that I had in the past was a tendency to respond while still fuming, which never ends well; usually it ends in both sides of an argument escalating while others grab the popcorn. Right there with you and I'm the asshole who wrote this post. I know I have a tendency to want to strike back when I feel struck and I also have a tendency to go way overboard, in that "don't throw the first punch but…

Rosenberg also narrates the audiobook version. His delivery is a big relief compared to the usual bravadoish and disconcertingly deranged manner of the self-help or ‘soft skills’ genre. Even though I'm still having trouble with the anecdotal nature of the argument, it's a lot better than e.g. “Don't Sweat The Small Stuff.”

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#120

Post by sokoloff »

Hamuko wrote: post #93
glangdale wrote: post #59

This article is overly fixated on overt assholery. Much of the worst asshole behavior I've encountered has been done by people who are outwardly polite and high functioning and have often never had a cross word for anyone. I would much rather get a tersely worded group email (ooo) than have to do someone else's job for them. Let's be frank. The #1 asshole thing not mentioned here is (shouting and swearing alert) NOT…

>Let's be frank. The #1 asshole thing not mentioned here is (shouting and swearing alert) NOT DOING YOUR FUCKING JOB. This is an immense source of frustration for other people, whether because they have to do the person's job for them, or because the person's failure to do their job creates disasters. One additional problem that I have with this: I feel like the asshole in this situation. I recall one instance where…

Setting and enforcing reasonable community standards, aka “this is how we do things around here”, is rarely experienced by the learner as an asshole action.
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