At this point, given the relentless barrage of evidence of 'dark pasterns' and worse in 'consent' luring, the practice should just be outlawed full stop.
Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
111–120 of 233 posts
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#112I look forward to the day when selling user's data requires the user's opt-in every single time a third party wants to access that data. No more "yes to all" or allowing blanket usage in TOS/EULAs. People who use apps that sell their data should be bombarded with requests to use that data each and every single time, until they either decide the app isn't worth it or the app decides they should try a different busines…
I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. No one likes ads, but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If I'm going to see ads, I'd rather them be something I might potentially find useful than something irrelevant. If I end up buying their product, the exchange is mutually beneficial and both parties walk away with value from th…
>but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet
I want to pay for the ones I use! It is increasingly becoming clear that free stuff is horrible.
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The only alternative seems to be a hike in rates for everybody. My naive understanding of the market is that the market doesn't work this way -- you charge what the market will bear. How much a product costs to make has nothing to do with how much you should charge for it; you charge what people will pay you. So if the market is already buying a product at a given price point, and you find a way to save some money…
For an ISP in the US, at least, normal market forces are largely irrelevant, as most areas do not have competition.
In my area, there is a lot of competition among ISPs, but I have to talk to sales people on the phone in order to get the best price. The prices advertised online are much higher than what individual sales people are authorized to offer. It often feels weird to haggle, but that's a natural effect of a free market.
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#114It's needed, I can tell you from anecdotally someone is feeding these habits to the advertising surveillance bots
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#115I live there and I am proud our lawmakers took this seriously. It seems too common for lawmakers to not understand the ramifications of what was at stake.
Me too! Now we just need to get some ISP competition. Spectrum has a complete monopoly in my area. Their service is spotty at best, and they also accidentally blocked my account from paying digitally. Now I have to drive to their office with a couple hundred dollars cash once a quarter to prepay my bill...
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#116Note that this is only necessary because the 2018 Republican Congress voted to allow ISPs to sell user data.
https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/house-votes-to-a...
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right so you are basically saying companies/governments should not be able to make generic observations about anything involving people in any way without their consent because it is impossible to have truly anonymous data. I don't know if I agree with that.
No, I'm not saying that. It is possible, for instance, to collect individual data, tally up certain characteristics in the aggregate, then discard the individual data points and only keep the aggregate statistics. With certain narrow exceptions, though, no data about me personally should be collected without my explicit permission regardless.
> With certain narrow exceptions, though, no data about me personally should be collected without my explicit permission regardless.
Well, I don't agree with that. I don't see any reason people should have a right to "own" information observed about them.
I make observations all the time about other people. You can't force me to forget what I've observed. Computers make it easier to "remember" and process observations, true, but at the root there is no difference between me observing stuff and writing it down and a computer observing stuff and writing it down.
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. No one likes ads, but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If I'm going to see ads, I'd rather them be something I might potentially find useful than something irrelevant. If I end up buying their product, the exchange is mutually beneficial and both parties walk away with value from th…
> no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If we had a reasonable micropayments system so I could spend a few cents per article I read online from non-subscription sites, I'd be thrilled. I do not want to see ads, ever. I do not want companies collecting or selling my activity patterns. If I've signed up for something, I don't want my personal details sold to someone else i…
Right? This is always the false dichotomy that gets put to us. "Either accept the ads or pay me 5 bucks a month"
5 bucks a month??!?! You were making 5 bucks a month off JUST ME WITH ADS?!!!!
But it's not that at all. It's simply that credit cards are so heinously inefficient and unreliable and costly to manage that they need to charge that amount of money to not lose money on average. Dealing with fraud and charge backs and the cut the banks take and the cost per transaction. It's just how terrible of a payment system credit cards really are.
If we were getting charged the actual price of the product, most people would happily pay! Load your browser up with 20 bucks and you'll have unobstructed internet for months.
I think this goal is pretty much what Brave is going for, they get a lot of criticism for their implementation here. Of course I'm not shocked, this is a hard problem, and the demand for the solution is irrationally low.
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. No one likes ads, but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If I'm going to see ads, I'd rather them be something I might potentially find useful than something irrelevant. If I end up buying their product, the exchange is mutually beneficial and both parties walk away with value from th…
> no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If we had a reasonable micropayments system so I could spend a few cents per article I read online from non-subscription sites, I'd be thrilled. I do not want to see ads, ever. I do not want companies collecting or selling my activity patterns. If I've signed up for something, I don't want my personal details sold to someone else i…
"I will gladly pay my proportion of what's necessary to keep the service running in order to avoid the "you're not the customer, you're the product" mentality."
Since both are complementary and independent revenue streams, why do you assume that you paying cash for something does not mean you will be monetized in other ways as well?
Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent
#120I can predict the "Dark Patterns" right now. Giant Accept button and 6pt font opt-out link.
Can they email you a "Change of Terms of Service" link (that nobody reads) that explains you auto accept if you continue using their service or some BS?
Legally dubious as you can't prove wether someone has read an email or not. Official correspondence has to occur through verifiable means (ex: having them login to a portal, certified mail) in order to handle the approval in order to stand up to a challenge in court.
I'm not a legal professional, and my advice shouldn't be taken as rule. Please consult an attorney.