71–80 of 233 posts
It would be like police setting up cameras and using them to train a machine learning model on drunk driver detection. It's not collecting who is driving, just observing how normal cars subtly drift in and out of a lane and brake vs. intoxicated drifting/braking and using that to train a DUI detection model.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The bill explicitly prevents that behavior. "The 'opt-in' nature...would set it apart from other state internet privacy laws... the proposed Maine law also would prohibit any [ISP] from making the sale of customer data part of its mandatory [TOS]. It also could not charge higher fees to customers who refuse to opt in" https://www.pressherald.com/2019/05/29/maine-on-track-to-pas...
They can't charge more for refusing to opt in, so nobody will opt in. The only alternative seems to be a hike in rates for everybody. Which isn't necessarily bad, it's arguably better that people actually know what cost they're paying. It's just naive to assume that this is ISPs getting some "extra money" on the side. This is factored into the revenue from the service. Now they'll have to adjust their models.
My naive understanding of the market is that the market doesn't work this way -- you charge what the market will bear. How much a product costs to make has nothing to do with how much you should charge for it; you charge what people will pay you.
So if the market is already buying a product at a given price point, and you find a way to save some money or make some extra money on the side, you shouldn't lower your prices in response unless a competitor forces you to -- and the ISP market has notoriously low competition. You happily take the extra margin and move on with your life.
In the same way, if a margin on a product goes down, but the market still refuses to pay more for it, you shouldn't necessarily expect prices to rise. Sometimes products just have different percentage margins.
In other words, if a company like Apple has good data that people are perfectly willing to buy iPhones at $1200, and they figure out a manufacturing trick that allows them to save $100 on each iPhone they build, they're not just going to drop the price to $1100. Similarly, if Apple has good data that people are only willing to buy iPhones at $1200 (and presumably they do, or else they would charge more), then a buyback or warranty program that loses them $100 per iPhone isn't necessarily going to mean a price increase.
Of course, economic majors are welcome to correct me if I'm oversimplifying this.
I look forward to the day when selling user's data requires the user's opt-in every single time a third party wants to access that data. No more "yes to all" or allowing blanket usage in TOS/EULAs. People who use apps that sell their data should be bombarded with requests to use that data each and every single time, until they either decide the app isn't worth it or the app decides they should try a different busines…
I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. No one likes ads, but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If I'm going to see ads, I'd rather them be something I might potentially find useful than something irrelevant. If I end up buying their product, the exchange is mutually beneficial and both parties walk away with value from th…
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I don't think their consent is an outlier. Most users are somewhat ok with selling their data in exchange for free services. I mean I use Gmail, Google Search, Google Maps, etc. etc. knowing they hoover up my data because, in the end, I value the ability to have these services for free more than I care about Google's ability to collect useful statistics about me/its users.
> Most users are somewhat ok with selling their data in exchange for free services. I think you're incorrect. I think most users recognize that they usually don't have a choice: they don't have money to provide for services that they need, so they are _forced_ to use services that are cheaper or free. And I think most users feel helpless to do anything about it because most politicians actively ignore them (because t…
I look forward to the day when selling user's data requires the user's opt-in every single time a third party wants to access that data. No more "yes to all" or allowing blanket usage in TOS/EULAs. People who use apps that sell their data should be bombarded with requests to use that data each and every single time, until they either decide the app isn't worth it or the app decides they should try a different busines…
I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. No one likes ads, but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If I'm going to see ads, I'd rather them be something I might potentially find useful than something irrelevant. If I end up buying their product, the exchange is mutually beneficial and both parties walk away with value from th…
If we had a reasonable micropayments system so I could spend a few cents per article I read online from non-subscription sites, I'd be thrilled. I do not want to see ads, ever. I do not want companies collecting or selling my activity patterns. If I've signed up for something, I don't want my personal details sold to someone else in order to fund the service. I will gladly pay my proportion of what's necessary to keep the service running in order to avoid the "you're not the customer, you're the product" mentality.
I totally understand that probably most people don't think the way I do. They are happy to exchange their privacy for free stuff, and in some cases wouldn't be able to afford to pay if this wasn't an option. But it's just sad that's the case.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
They can't charge more for refusing to opt in, so nobody will opt in. The only alternative seems to be a hike in rates for everybody. Which isn't necessarily bad, it's arguably better that people actually know what cost they're paying. It's just naive to assume that this is ISPs getting some "extra money" on the side. This is factored into the revenue from the service. Now they'll have to adjust their models.
> The only alternative seems to be a hike in rates for everybody. My naive understanding of the market is that the market doesn't work this way -- you charge what the market will bear. How much a product costs to make has nothing to do with how much you should charge for it; you charge what people will pay you. So if the market is already buying a product at a given price point, and you find a way to save some money…
I can predict the "Dark Patterns" right now. Giant Accept button and 6pt font opt-out link.
This might make it worth having me park a server in the state and get my internet feed through a VPN to that server.
I can predict the "Dark Patterns" right now. Giant Accept button and 6pt font opt-out link.
Hmmm... This might make it worth having me park a server in the state and get my internet feed through a VPN to that server.