Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China • Hacker News Board

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#111

Post by anthuman » Thu, May 23, 2019, 12:03 PM UTC

internet_user wrote: post #6

Should they be under international sanctions for polluting our commons and destrying the planet?

"International" sanctions by whom? Most of china's pollution is manufacturing for the west.

The biggest polluters ( in total and per capita ) in the world today are still europe and the US.

Almost all the pollution and environmental destruction the past 200 years were by europe and the US. Should there be "international" sanctions on us?

There ain't no saints this world. And those who claim to be saints are the worst villains.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#112

Post by PhasmaFelis » Thu, May 23, 2019, 1:09 PM UTC

internet_user wrote: post #37

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bans. Sanctions. Diplomatic action. Force their government to crack down on them. Terrorism is basically narcissistic. It never, ever helps anything, but it feels so good to lash out at bad people, so you convince yourself that you're a hero when all you're really doing is turning people against your cause.

Apparently, returning fire in an economic war is wrong. It's terrorism according to you. Shipping radioactive waste into your house - not terrorism, according to you. Nobody will be against punishing people for allowing willfully contaminating products and then decieving you about their safety.

Just to be clear, we're talking about killing people, yeah? "Environmental mercenaries...who will reek havoc on those who pollute or endanger the planet," as stevespang put it. That is, literally, terrorism, even if the goal is laudable. Knowingly selling toxic, deadly products out of greed is a horrible thing, but it is literally not terrorism.

You seem to think that "terrorism" means "anything dangerous that bad guys do."

> Nobody will be against punishing people for allowing willfully contaminating products and then decieving you about their safety.

Absolutely not true. When you turn to terrorism, you lose the moral high ground in the eyes of most of the international community. It's so easy to spin that against you to discredit your entire cause; to convince people who might have been sympathetic that you're just a violent psychopath after all.

Do these bastards deserve to die? Maybe. I wouldn't shed a single tear if they were killed. That doesn't mean it's a good way to achieve your goal, if your goal is long-term change instead of short-term vengeance.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#113

Post by pas » Thu, May 23, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

A2017U1 wrote: post #102

sundvor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is real. Try buying the good types of baby formula in Australian supermarkets or pharmacies; you quickly learn the need to have a buffer of several lest your baby goes hungry. Scalpers go in and get what they can, then sell to China for a massive profit. If they're hit by the "max one per customer" they'll come in again and again until they're kicked out of the store. I feel bad for parents in China who can't tr…

And yet Australian dairy farmers constantly complain about low prices and going bankrupt. This has been going on for years. The complaint doesn't add up. There's more than enough milk powder to go around, people are fighting over the premium ones.

Baby-food powder is probably too small a market for milk producers to matter. (And usually the cost of the milk is not that big of a factor in the final consumer price.)

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#114

Post by singularity2001 » Thu, May 23, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #97

tozeur wrote: post #47

Having been an expat traveled to over 25 countries, I can confidently say our natural world is fucked. Modern industrialism has given the third world too much manufacturing power. And they aren’t aware of the consequences and don’t care, because “fuckit I want kids toys and double ply toilet paper for my family too, not just the Westerners”

Where's the problem with toilet paper? That stuff degrades really really fast even if simply dumped somewhere.

IDK, you have to clear the whole Amazon if 7bio people want toilet paper?

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#115

Post by pas » Thu, May 23, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

MagnumOpus wrote: post #95

roboys wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn't forget the almost 100 years of Europeans pumping opium into their country.

This hypothesis is falsified by the fact that the Chinese who live in Taiwan and Hong Kong are by and large perfectly civilised people, rather unlike mainland China.

Were they the main opium consumers?

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#116

Post by pas » Thu, May 23, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

daodedickinson wrote: post #42

jlawson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really not. Spend some time in China. It won't take long (hours to days) before you notice the utter callousness with which people habitually treat strangers and the environment around them. It can't be believed until it's experienced.

Is there any place with comparable population density with a substantially better social environment? If so, have you any theories that could explain the difference?

State socialism/communism.

Everything is provided, decided, controlled, influenced, reviewed, rethought by and via the state (in some representation, the party, the government, the local government, some group or other, an official, someone with connections, the police, or even just a faceless automated system/website/machine). This reminds people that everything is temporary, effort is futile, etc. This makes people simply not care much about common stuff. (Environment, roads, streets, houses, etc.)

Source, I'm from a post-soviet country, and we're dealing with huge swaths of the population who are still very much thinking like this.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#117

Post by mises » Thu, May 23, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

internet_user wrote: post #51

mc32 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won’t affect them just like when Russia poisons defectors abroad on foreign soil. Lots of noise and complaining but nothing can come of it. They’re too big.

Not just too big, they are outside of the US sphere of influence, while Japan is a client state really. We should still shame reprehensible behavior.

They are not a client state, but may become one if we don't change things quickly. They have been an ally of America, because Amerifa projected an extremely strong influence into the Pacific post-WWII. We have had a succession of cowardly politicians afraid to stand up to others (see China's behavior in the S. China Sea, Russian Invasion of Ukraine, Iran building nukes). Both sides talk tough and refuse to act. Now we risk Iran dominating the Middle East and China becoming the world's number-one power and dominating Africa. We need to keep China down at all costs and prevent them from fully developing.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#118

Post by mises » Thu, May 23, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

internet_user wrote: post #49

xfitm3 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper/cellulose straws are inferior and maddening to use. Yes, I need to use a straw.

There are reusable silicone, glass, metal, etc straws if you absolutely must use a straw. I used to have a collapsible silicone cup. Downvote me for that too.

I drink a milkshake. I must now clean a reusable straw. I have to deal with a sticky mess. That's more than I want, particularly when the alternative is pitching said sticky mess.

One of the best things about eating out is that there is no clean-up.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#119

Post by acct1771 » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

slowmovintarget wrote: post #19

bArray wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I hate to see the environment getting destroyed, eco-terrorism is not the way forwards. Every normal person is empowered to help: purchase from people whose ideals you agree with, win the hearts and minds of those around you, re-use everything you safely can.

And perhaps there should be tariffs on Chinese goods to prevent them from dumping poisonous products on the market. Some of these things like lead and cadmium in children's pencil cases made me wonder if this was intentional.

A lot of it certainly isn't making Chinese manufacturing management lose sleep.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#120

Post by gaze » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

heybrendan wrote: post #43

TFA made me think of Dr. Mehmet Oz' interview of Dr. Jordan Peterson [1] from last year (2018). I've transcribed part of the interview below: Dr. Jordan Peterson: > "I've always been obsessed with totalitarianism and authoritarian governments whether they're on the Right or the Left for years--decades really. I spent almost all of my free time thinking about what happened in Nazi Germany and in Russia during the Sovi…

Love to see a fraud interviewing a fraud