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Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

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Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#111

Post by twmb »

briandear wrote: post #73
apo wrote: post #52

Context is important. The qualifier at the beginning of the sentence is important: > In some important ways, my generation has failed you in this regard [being too cautious]. We spent too much time debating. We've been too focused on the fight and not focused enough on progress. And you don't need to look far to find an example of that failure. Here today, in this very place, in an arena where thousands once found de…

> Anyone who believes that climate change is caused mostly by human activity should be concerned about this trend. The deeply political nature of the conversation has turned what should be a deliberate discussion about science and policy into a shouting match. The problem isn’t the science as much as the proposed solutions. The more extreme solutions are more about income redistribution rather than actual science. Wh…

The opinion article you linked is from a right-rated source [0]. The main suggestion in it,

> That would start with the federal government imposing a national, revenue neutral carbon tax of about $200 per tonne of emissions, immediately (not $50 in 2022 under Trudeau’s plan) and then returning all the money raised back to Canadians in dividend cheques.

has pretty wide support on the left. I'm not sure how that differs from being wealth redistribution, which is what the opinion piece is against. It also doesn't describe what the current scheme is nor how it is wealth redistribution.

As far as party support for nuclear, [1]. Democrats care more about wind/solar. Neither party has majority support for emphasizing nuclear. I don't think people that care about CO2 would rule nuclear out if it were the only option.

Jets vs. thermostat type problems are tragedy of the commons. I don't appreciate private jets ferrying around political leaders, but I doubt they'll be flying commercial. That doesn't seem practical from a security nor time perspective. But, millions of people adjust their thermostats. If everybody tolerated just a liiiiittle bit less than their ideal temperature, how much would that save? Consumption is a tragedy of the commons problem.

I'd like evidence that limousine liberals are the problems w.r.t. taxes. I agree that there is hypocrisy. I disagree about how it rings hollow compared to redistributing the means, especially since "redistributing the means" doesn't even really make sense in that block of text.

Lastly, studies aren't full of blatant inaccuracies nor FUD. The world isn't ending outright, but it's getting a lot worse in a lot of ways in a lot of areas. The Syrian civil war was partially exacerbated by the worst drought ever recorded [2]. The science is settled. Exxon Mobile predicted [3] exactly what would be happening today [4] back in 1982. The conclusion of their summary is that serious adverse problems are not likely to occur until the late century, and that the time should allow for coming up with solutions. That time is now, and globally, we are doing very little, because doing what needs to be done would be economically detrimental to established interests.

[0]: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/toronto-sun/ [1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/182180/support-nuclear-energy.a... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War [3]: https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/documents/... [4]: https://twitter.com/UNFCCC/status/1125085040768167937

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#112

Post by NE2z2T9qi »

maxxxxx wrote: post #63
NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you asking for? The world has changed drastically, culture and preferences have changed drastically, and new technological tools make the job and economic landscape entirely different than earlier. That's not Baby Boomers' fault. Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. They're not malicio…

One thing that has happened in the last few decades is that increases in prosperity mainly went to a few at the top and for the rest it stagnated. I think you can put the blame on the people in power during that time.

My net wealth is massively negative and will remain so for decades... and yet any fair assessment of my quality of life is that it's great. I can't afford a car, but I can still be chauffeured around like a celebrity at the push of a button on my phone. I can summon almost anything I want from across the planet and have it show up in my doorstep in 2 days as if I was a king. I have access to probably 99+% of the knowledge, information, art, entertainment, and telecommunication tools of the richest guy in the world. I could hardly care less that some people are preposterously wealthy while I'm "poor", because I really think my life is probably at least 80% as good as theirs is. I also hope for greater equality in the hope that it would further spur creation and make people feel more comfortable with risk taking and self-fulfillment or self-expression. But, thinking that millennials/post-millenials/future generations have been somehow "screwed over" or have been given a world on fire is an ungrateful and borderline laughable delusion.

The "previous generations failed us" mentality implies that we are somehow due all of the good things previous generations have given us (even though the only thing most of us have done to "deserve" them is exist) without having to deal with any of the bad. I think if some people had their way, we'd be shivering out in the cold and bartering mounds of dirt for big circular rocks because they'd have villified the people that first cut down a tree for shelter or crucified the people who thought that steam engines were an innovation.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#113

Post by scarface74 »

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #6

I guess I'm considered a millennial, but messages like this sound like misconceived pandering. Firstly, I don't think any generation necessarily "owes" anything to future generations. But, even if we accept the premise, I am the beneficiary of absolutely mind-boggling amounts of technological advancement, culture, progress, infrastructure, science, and on and on and on even just over the course of my own lifetime (ap…

One thing that the previous generation is not to make the world worse. At some point, the increased debt will hurt future generations.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#114

Post by chansiky »

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #24
tedivm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are numerous ways in which Tim Cook's generation has failed the next generation (at least in the US). * Wages are flat, * Housing costs are up (in large part due to NIMBYism), * College is more expensive (in large part due to Cook's generation cutting subsidies that they got), * Environment is shot- that whole global warming thing isn't going away anytime soon. Generally speaking the baby boomers, as a…

What are you asking for? The world has changed drastically, culture and preferences have changed drastically, and new technological tools make the job and economic landscape entirely different than earlier. That's not Baby Boomers' fault. Are you really going to blame them for not predicting the future well enough? Baby boomers aren't forcing young folks to like living in cities more than suburbs. They're not malicio…

What you’re wrong about is the notion that markets dictate itself. Actually pretty much the entirety of America and possibly most of the rest of the developed world is wrong on this notion because the country and the rest of the world is so rooted in capitalism. It’s like crying about the fact that we are polluting the world with single use plastics and saying that we are powerless to do anything about it because individuals will always optimize for personal gain. The reality is we as people are people and every single one of us has the ability and capacity to choose to not use single use plastics. We aren’t dumb robots that absolutely have to follow this code of maximizing for personal gain. People as individuals, or organizations, or really groups of people of any size are capable of doing anything because at the base level, every single person has the capacity to make one decision over another, because we are people not robots. If we chose to keep the earth clean, we could keep the earth clean. It’s not impossible, and people need to stop believing that the only force is this blobby uncontrollable multicellular creature of human mass that creates cities, destroys natural landscapes, and kills rhinos. It’s at this level of learned helplessness where you (and I’m not crticizing only you, but pretty much the rest of the world) is wrong. If baby boomers collectively chose to help the next generation they absolutely could have done more to help the next generation. They just never believed anything could be done so they never really tried.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#115

Post by rootoor »

darepublic wrote: post #110
rootoor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what are you asking for? I want cooperation. Younger people, myself included, want policy changes that will attempt to mitigate some of the damage done by the previous generation. However, boomers are still in power and actively resist changes that attempt to curb issues like climate change and income inequality. I think this is where a lot of resentment comes from. Additionally boomers will be dead before the cons…

To me this story of boomers callously enriching themselves at the expense of future generations sounds like just a bigoted unfounded accusation. Talk about not taking responsibility.. foisting all your problems onto the parent generation as if you yourself have no agency to tackle these challenges. Maybe the millenials will be blamed by the next generation for just burying themselves in video games and drugs at the t…

I never said anything about boomers enriching themselves at the expense of future generations.

I think blaming younger generations for not taking responsibility for what was handed to them is unfair. We are trying to fix things, however it is difficult when the people in power (who happen to be boomers) will not allow progress. That resistance to change and the resulting resentment is what I was attempting to discuss in my previous comment.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#116

Post by andrekandre »

briandear wrote: post #73
apo wrote: post #52

Context is important. The qualifier at the beginning of the sentence is important: > In some important ways, my generation has failed you in this regard [being too cautious]. We spent too much time debating. We've been too focused on the fight and not focused enough on progress. And you don't need to look far to find an example of that failure. Here today, in this very place, in an arena where thousands once found de…

> Anyone who believes that climate change is caused mostly by human activity should be concerned about this trend. The deeply political nature of the conversation has turned what should be a deliberate discussion about science and policy into a shouting match. The problem isn’t the science as much as the proposed solutions. The more extreme solutions are more about income redistribution rather than actual science. Wh…

> The problem isn’t the science as much as the proposed solutions. The more extreme solutions are more about income redistribution rather than actual science. Whether or not climate change is unequivocally human caused, there are those that would use “climate” as a means to enact economic proposals they favor regardless of the climate impact. https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-failed-c....

a link to an opinion piece in the toronto sun isn’t enough evidence imo (sorry just calling it like i see it, please feel free to provide more evidence)

> For example, what about nuclear? If we are “serious” about climate change, nuclear is the best choice for large scale electrical production, but nuclear faces opposition from those that scream loudest about the danger of fossil fuels.

what about it? there are serious problems with nuclear, for example what to do with the waste (we already saw the disaster waiting to happen at fukushima), what about proliferation of potentially refinable nuclear materials (weapons)? i agree compared to coal it’s a potential short term option, but why do nuclear when we have high powered solar (molten salt) stations [1] that cost a fraction of nuclear stations [2] to say nothing of traditional wind and hydro electric generation

again, i’m not 100% against nuclear but there are much faster, agile and cleaner alternatives already in production

> What about the Paris climate meeting? The local airport was filled to the brim with private jets.

1.) i think this argument is a bit of a nit pick, and 2.) how do you know every private jet was for each person meeting there? and even if so, their hypocrisy is no excuse to do nothing...

> To normal people like me, why should I set my thermostat to a higher temperature in summer when my energy use is just a blip compared to some “Climate official’s” own carbon footprint. Why should poor people have to pay a higher percentage of their income for energy taxes while the limousine liberals keendoing their thing? They aren’t personally consuming less or suffering the impact of their proposals.

that’s a very important point and gets to the real root of the issue: most greenhouse gas is emitted from power generation, farming, deforestation, cars/trucks (lack of public transport being a huge contributor) and industrial processes [3]

these are all systemic and industrial problems that have to be solved at those levels (system and industry), “you and me” barely contribute to that but simple things like not leaving the air on or tv or lights on (esp on large american-style houses) is reasonable imo (to say nothing of it being common sense to reduce your power bill).

> Buying “carbon credits” is a cop out — unless they are actually reducing their own energy consumption, they are still spitting CO2 into the air, no matter how much they pay for the privilege.

this may be true, but it’s a deep sign that our “market based” thinking is not working, and we need to just start passing laws and be done with it... todays politicians are paralyzed by industry and capital, that’s why they will do almost anything to shift the burden to you and me...

> To me, if the situation were so dire, there’d be a lot less hypocrisy. If the “experts” aren’t flying commercial or video conferencing, then clearly the problem isn’t a grave as they suggest. There is absolutely no rationale for climate officials taking a Gulfstream to a climate conference. The concern over the climate rings hollow compared to the bigger goals of redistributing the means of production.

is that “climate officials” or just al gore? and again, why should we let their hypocrisy stop us from doing the right thing? it’s entirely besides the point (and i would agree with you about the gulf stream point, just to be fair)

> Al Gore becoming a billionaire because of the climate industry also creates some skepticism since he and other like him have a vested financial interest in propagating his opinions. His Inconvinient Truth movie was full of blatant inaccuracies and the forecast FUD never materialized.

firstly, who cares about al gore, and secondly, how about some evidence? and what are the FUD that never materialized?

> We constantly hear things like “in 12 years the world will end” yet, here we are, not too much different than we were in 2000. In fact, it might be argued that the climate changes with or without human intervention. The “settled” science isn’t very settled to me, otherwise the predictions wouldn’t be so consistently wrong.

are you sure about that? [4]

> I am loathe to support the attempted destruction of capitalism based on unreliable computer models. Those of us skeptical of climate politics — we live here too. It isn’t like we are genuinely interested in destroying the planet; but some of us don’t have a lot of trust in power that they are actually altruistic.

who said anything about destroying capitalism, and why are you so concerned about that?

and sure, those in power don’t deserve much trust i’ll give you that, but that’s because they get their source of funding not from us, but from industry... we should be pushing for politicians that take no corporate and pac money as a start and hold them more and more accountable... and the second point is, those in power also include the financial sectors and heavy industry... do you have the same mistrust of them as well?

> Remember, Eugenics was “settled science” too and we saw how horribly that turned out.

completely different time periods, “sciences”, and cultures... this does not follow imo

——

[1] https://inhabitat.com/revolutionary-new-solar-plant-generate...

[2] https://www.synapse-energy.com/sites/default/files/SynapsePa...

[3] https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis...

[4] https://skepticalscience.com/ipcc-overestimate-global-warmin...

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#117

Post by bumby »

roenxi wrote: post #106
bumby wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the whole, I too agree with Pinker. But I don't think it's necessarily mutually exclusive with one generation "failing" another (I hate that wording because it feels reductionist). If the claim is true that the millennial generation is the first to have a lower quality of life than their parents, that sounds a lot like a failure to manage resources given the prosperity you cited. How can we be at the most prospero…

If the millennial generation wants a higher quality of life than their parents, they will need to gather and harvest more resources. The methods the boomers & prior generations used for that were a combination of investing in fossil fuel extraction infrastructure and sometimes waging war/extracting resources from other countries. Look at China - massive generational improvement in living standards, massive increase i…

I think this is a false dichotomy. The only way it's true is if we assume the quality of life desired by millennials is the same as conspicuous consumption previously portrayed by Madison Avenue. To that point, I see younger generations largely rejecting this definition of 'quality of life' in favor of alternate definitions.

In regards to China, I don't know if this is a point that this is the only way to do things or if it's just following a previously defined template, similar to the way most economies transition from agrarian, to industrial, to service economies.

I also think it's erroneous to frame it as an either/or state when there's opportunity for both improving standards of living without an additional impact on the environment through increases in efficiency on how we put those resources to work. There's lots of sectors (healthcare, energy, etc.) that affect quality of life that can improve without the assumption that we throw more resources at them, just that we be smarter about how we use those resources.

I suppose this shows how old and out of touch I am, but who are the 'thought-leaders' you refer towards? I'm not being snarky, I legitimately don't know who would be considered a millennial thought-leader and would like to find out.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#118

Post by karmelapple »

roenxi wrote: post #106
bumby wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the whole, I too agree with Pinker. But I don't think it's necessarily mutually exclusive with one generation "failing" another (I hate that wording because it feels reductionist). If the claim is true that the millennial generation is the first to have a lower quality of life than their parents, that sounds a lot like a failure to manage resources given the prosperity you cited. How can we be at the most prospero…

If the millennial generation wants a higher quality of life than their parents, they will need to gather and harvest more resources. The methods the boomers & prior generations used for that were a combination of investing in fossil fuel extraction infrastructure and sometimes waging war/extracting resources from other countries. Look at China - massive generational improvement in living standards, massive increase i…

whynotboth.gif

It strikes me as a false dichotomy to think we have to choose between higher wages / quality of life and the environment.

As mentioned earlier, a lot of investment went into fossil fuels in the past. Now, we could put a lot of investment into technologies that won’t hurt the environment as much. There will be an initial cost to doing that (we’ll still use fossil fuels to get much of the electricity to make solar/wind/etc), but eventually things will even out and we can start having environmentally-friendly sources be much more affordable.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#119

Post by impostir »

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #6

I guess I'm considered a millennial, but messages like this sound like misconceived pandering. Firstly, I don't think any generation necessarily "owes" anything to future generations. But, even if we accept the premise, I am the beneficiary of absolutely mind-boggling amounts of technological advancement, culture, progress, infrastructure, science, and on and on and on even just over the course of my own lifetime (ap…

I have mixed feelings on discussing problems with "generations"; its so broad and imprecise that it feels meaningless. However, I can accept that it has some value when discussing broad social effects.

I agree with Jobs; Gen X and further back generations, as groups, raped the planet for short-term economic growth. They aren't the first or last group to do so, but they did do it. My generation, I.e. gen Z, is looking at an abnormally bleak future. Yes, the past generations had the Cold War and possible Nuclear Armageddon. And while the Cold War is dead, possible Nuclear Armageddon is still very much alive. We also face, for the first time in US history, the likelihood that we will die poorer than our parents. We also face the fact that our middle age will come with practically certain catastrophic climate change. Any one of these problems is significant on a global scale, but their collective force is even more crippling.

All these problems exist because of the collective decisions of past generations; thats what every present is. WW1 was a product of dumb alliances and treaties made decades before. And it wasn't the generation that decided on the treaties that were butchered on the Somme, it was their children. And as a group, I believe that they are soaked in the blood of their children. However, I will agree that blaming generations is at best unproductive and at worst needlessly divisive. Yes, the actions of past generations create the wars and disasters of today, but that is a simple fact of societies. Blaming a generation hides the specific culprits behind specific problems. We should blame the Tobacco lobby for the death of millions, we should blame oil companies for crippling greener alternatives for decades, we should blame the Military-Industrial complex for chaining America to eternal wars just to make an easy buck.

This was more rambly than I intended, so I hope it still has some value.

Re: Tim Cook’s Message to 2019 Graduates: ‘My Generation Has Failed You’

#120

Post by fred_dev »

"There are some who would like to believe that the only way you can be strong is by bulldozing those who disagree with you…"

This sentence reminded me today's headline news about Huawei !!!

US government bulldozing the other countries tech companies to make CEO of apple a role model.

I also enjoyed the speech, congrats to all 2019 graduates around the world.

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