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Why We Dominate the Earth

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Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sects of people were uncooperative and competing with each other all the time And those groups who cooperated with in-group better have repeatedly outcompeted groups that didn't cooperate as well.

Up to a point. Successful cooperation seems to be through family ties or common upbringing, such as the vikings or spartans.

modern corporations outcompete family or upbringing based orgs.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#112
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. Shared fictions seems to just be a euphemism for culture. I wonder why he doesn't just call it that.

Social construct is closer to what he talks about. As for why he had to use a non standard formulation for this ... I believe it's marketing.

I actually like the way he uses "intersubjective truth"(on a spectrum with "objective truth" and "subjective truth) to describe things that are only true because enough people agree that they're true.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this episode but was surprised that wikipedia said this: > It is often cited as one of the best episodes of the both The Next Generation series and the entire family of the several Star Trek television series.

It was definitely the most innovative episode. My favorite was the first Borg episode where they finally met someone they couldn't defeat that wanted to destroy them. OP: an example of shared fiction he uses in the book is the law. The law is a fiction in the sense that it is not a physical object, but a group of shared concepts that allows society to be built to a higher order. "Sapiens" is a great read.

> It was definitely the most innovative episode.

How so? I always hated that episode because it's a straightforward story of developing communications through a language barrier, except that Star Trek is very clear that language barriers don't exist. So it just ends up being an incoherent plot hole.

But the concept of a language barrier isn't exactly new.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#114

> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. I read his book where he talks about this. It makes some sense: you can operate at varied scales if you have shared fictions. When you meet a complete stranger, you're both members of the human race, sharing a desire for a better future. Meet a fellow countryman, and there are so…

A better example is that before our cognitive revolution humans could only really cooperate in groups no larger than 100. When we developed the ability to imagine shared fictions, such as countries, money, law, religion, we gained the ability to cooperate on some level with every other human that also believed in those fictions. Money, even back when it was something like sea shells that were money, meant many disparate groups could cooperate as long as they shared the belief in the fiction of those shells being more than just shells.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sects of people were uncooperative and competing with each other all the time And those groups who cooperated with in-group better have repeatedly outcompeted groups that didn't cooperate as well.

Up to a point. Successful cooperation seems to be through family ties or common upbringing, such as the vikings or spartans.

If you look at history, cultures that have managed to form a wide group identity have wiped out cultures that relied on close, tribe-like cooperation. Here's a short clip from Sapolsky's lectures on behavioural evolution about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQKTnau5AEY I originally watched the whole lecture course, so I don't know how well the point gets across in this clip, but I highly recommend his lectures for this and other related subjects.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#116

Reading the book right now. What's concerning to me is that we are currently seeing the dissolving of myths across the board, whether it be religion, faith in public institutions, or facades that we kept before social media existed. Is the breakdown of social cohesion a consequence? Letting go of myths seems like an inherent good, but can we survive it?

> seeing the dissolving of myths across the board

I believe you are incorrect - we are replacing the old with the new.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#117

Sapiens is a must read for anyone who wants to better understand the fabrics of humanity. It's one of my most favourite books and reading it definitely has opened up my eyes to the world. An example: Humans are the "creators of the world", the most dominant species on the planet and at the top of the food chain by a long distance and yet we are the most jumpy/scary species of all. If a tiny spider would crawl up the…

>If a tiny spider would crawl up the leg of a lion they wouldn't give a bit of a shit. A lion would remain calm, knowing that the spider cannot do anything and it wouldn't even bother to entertain the spider for a split second. > However if the same tiny spider would crawl up the leg of a human there's a real chance that this person would start jumping up and down, perhaps trying to kill the spider or maybe even rush…

Yeah the comparison is subpar, I'd bet a dollar that anything that proved hurtful to a lion will make him jump the next time he runs into it by mistake. Animals have fears, we just have different ones.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#118
I've previously thought about the idea that Humans are the first species with software, instead of just hardware. When a bug exists in a chip, you have to wait for the next generation to have it fixed. But a programmer can fix a bug or add functionality to the same physical machine; this is why software exists in the first place.

The decision-making of other animals may develop generationally, but it has very limited capacity for change within a single organism's life. On the other hand, a human can endlessly rewrite her software on top of the same hardware. We can evolve without waiting for our DNA to change.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#119

Reading the book right now. What's concerning to me is that we are currently seeing the dissolving of myths across the board, whether it be religion, faith in public institutions, or facades that we kept before social media existed. Is the breakdown of social cohesion a consequence? Letting go of myths seems like an inherent good, but can we survive it?

The modernist movement which started around a century ago assumed that "Letting go of myths seems like an inherent good", but I think that's naiive and I think we're starting to grasp that fact. Certainly some myths are destructive, and many of them are limiting, but myths are also a fundamental construct that we require to be able to function. Knowing where to draw the line and learning how to suspend your disbelief as needed is a great challenge, but an important one.

Tolkien (along with C.S. Lewis), a vocal anti-modernist, had interesting thoughts on this subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Fairy-Stories

"Tolkien suggests that fairy stories allow the reader to review his own world from the "perspective" of a different world. Tolkien calls this "recovery", in the sense that one's unquestioned assumptions might be recovered and changed by an outside perspective...Tolkien [also] asserts that a truly good and representative fairy story is marked by joy: "Far more powerful and poignant is the effect [of joy] in a serious tale of Faerie. In such stories, when the sudden turn comes, we get a piercing glimpse of joy, and heart's desire, that for a moment passes outside the frame, rends indeed the very web of story, and lets a gleam come through.""

He and Lewis even - despite being practicing Christians - had the wisdom to see even their own religion as a kind of fairy-story, not cheapening it but orienting it within the important role that fictions play in the human condition.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#120
post #90
post #89

Define "dominate". IMHO bacteria dominate the Earth, but of course, they don't know. They don't even need to know to dominate.

>dom·i·nate >verb >have a commanding influence on; exercise control over. >be the most important or conspicuous person or thing in. Bacteria have a huge effect on all life, but they don't "exercise control" as they are not self aware. Their influence is comprised solely of externalities. Humans by comparison exert far more control over the environment around them. We shape the world to our purpose. I think humanity w…

Meh. The biosphere, being generous and giving it 10 km depth and 10 km height (ocean trench, mountain peaks), is 20 km worth of skin on a 12 700 km diameter sphere.

Less than an oily smear on a marble. "Saving the planet" is laughable, the planet could hiccup and wipe out all life and keep going as before ...

("Don't antropomorphize Nature, she hates that.")

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