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Why We Dominate the Earth

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Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#81

Post by jasode »

felipemnoa wrote: post #75
lordnacho wrote: post #2

> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. I read his book where he talks about this. It makes some sense: you can operate at varied scales if you have shared fictions. When you meet a complete stranger, you're both members of the human race, sharing a desire for a better future. Meet a fellow countryman, and there are so…

>>> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. Shared fictions seems to just be a euphemism for culture. I wonder why he doesn't just call it that.

If you're only going by the short snippet lordnacho quoted, yes it might seem like it's just "culture".

Culture would be shared rituals like language, food preferences, music etc.

YNH's "shared fiction" idea is about humans' ability to deliberately create new abstract entities that compels humans to act together in service of that entity.

Examples of his shared fictions would be a "company" or "fiat money". These "fictions" somehow organize humans to cooperate and multiply their power over the world.

Culture, on the other hand, like regional food recipes, would accumulate organically and accidentally.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#82

Post by quadrangle »

felipemnoa wrote: post #75
lordnacho wrote: post #2

> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. I read his book where he talks about this. It makes some sense: you can operate at varied scales if you have shared fictions. When you meet a complete stranger, you're both members of the human race, sharing a desire for a better future. Meet a fellow countryman, and there are so…

>>> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. Shared fictions seems to just be a euphemism for culture. I wonder why he doesn't just call it that.

Because culture also includes something like how we construct and decorate houses, and there's nothing fictional about that. Same with the types of food we eat or music we make.

Only some parts of culture are shared-fictions.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#83

Post by x3tm »

learc83 wrote: post #20
lordnacho wrote: post #2

> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. I read his book where he talks about this. It makes some sense: you can operate at varied scales if you have shared fictions. When you meet a complete stranger, you're both members of the human race, sharing a desire for a better future. Meet a fellow countryman, and there are so…

There was an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation that explored a similar concept. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok

I've just seen it after reading your comment. (long bus ride). Excellent episode and so much more enjoyable than the peugeot story of Harari. Thanks for the implicit recommendation.

As for the 'fictions' that Harari likes to talk about, it seems to me that it's more of a rebranding of the concept of social construct than anything new or more insightful than that.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#84

Post by 86carr »

chkaloon wrote: post #71

Reading the book right now. What's concerning to me is that we are currently seeing the dissolving of myths across the board, whether it be religion, faith in public institutions, or facades that we kept before social media existed. Is the breakdown of social cohesion a consequence? Letting go of myths seems like an inherent good, but can we survive it?

You should check out RS Bakker or Peter Watts. https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/ https://www.rifters.com/

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#85

Post by x3tm »

felipemnoa wrote: post #75
lordnacho wrote: post #2

> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. I read his book where he talks about this. It makes some sense: you can operate at varied scales if you have shared fictions. When you meet a complete stranger, you're both members of the human race, sharing a desire for a better future. Meet a fellow countryman, and there are so…

>>> Surprisingly, it’s not our shared language or even our ability to dominate other species that defines us but rather, our shared fictions. Shared fictions seems to just be a euphemism for culture. I wonder why he doesn't just call it that.

Social construct is closer to what he talks about. As for why he had to use a non standard formulation for this ... I believe it's marketing.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#86

Post by imglorp »

chkaloon wrote: post #71

Reading the book right now. What's concerning to me is that we are currently seeing the dissolving of myths across the board, whether it be religion, faith in public institutions, or facades that we kept before social media existed. Is the breakdown of social cohesion a consequence? Letting go of myths seems like an inherent good, but can we survive it?

Partial agree: I think there's a bifurcation in society.

One part _is_ dissolving myths, using the tools of science and education and curation of knowledge.

Another part is regressing into myth: look at antivax, idiocracy, tribalism/xenophobia, and all the political theocracies sprouting up.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#87

Post by tim333 »

gnulinux wrote: post #11
dustinmoris wrote: post #5

Sapiens is a must read for anyone who wants to better understand the fabrics of humanity. It's one of my most favourite books and reading it definitely has opened up my eyes to the world. An example: Humans are the "creators of the world", the most dominant species on the planet and at the top of the food chain by a long distance and yet we are the most jumpy/scary species of all. If a tiny spider would crawl up the…

>If a tiny spider would crawl up the leg of a lion they wouldn't give a bit of a shit. A lion would remain calm, knowing that the spider cannot do anything and it wouldn't even bother to entertain the spider for a split second. > However if the same tiny spider would crawl up the leg of a human there's a real chance that this person would start jumping up and down, perhaps trying to kill the spider or maybe even rush…

In my experience house cats certainly react to tiny spiders but often by eating them.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#88

Post by devoply »

Why we dominate the earth is not an interesting question. An interesting question is should we and is it a net positive? I personally don't think so. We as a species is completely incapable of managing the earth... or we have not yet evolved systems to do so and until we do we should stop dominating the earth.

Re: Why We Dominate the Earth

#90

Post by EpicEng »

m0skit0 wrote: post #89

Define "dominate". IMHO bacteria dominate the Earth, but of course, they don't know. They don't even need to know to dominate.

>dom·i·nate

>verb

>have a commanding influence on; exercise control over.

>be the most important or conspicuous person or thing in.

Bacteria have a huge effect on all life, but they don't "exercise control" as they are not self aware. Their influence is comprised solely of externalities. Humans by comparison exert far more control over the environment around them. We shape the world to our purpose. I think humanity wins here.

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