Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? I realize this is being portrayed in the media as a total government shutdown, but that's really not the case. The US has multiple levels of government. Federal, State, County, and Municipal. State, County, and Municipal governments (which are the ones that really provide essential services), are operating normally. For the Federal governme…
> For the Federal government, any self-sufficient or quasi-self-sufficient operations (like the USPTO, USPS, etc.) are unaffected. Any operations that already had their budgets passed are unaffected. Wrong. The Federal Budget was done in steps. Only 25% of the government was under debate on Dec 2017, so only that 25% of the Federal Government was shutdown. In 2014 (IIRC), there WAS a total government shutdown for a f…
Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
111–120 of 153 posts
Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#112Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? I mean, apart from the loss of services, including websites, it seems like many federal workers aren't being paid. Will they be paid back after the shutdown impasse is resolved or is the money they didn't/couldn't earn lost to them. This seems unfair and, in the meantime, how are they supposed to go about their lives? Overall it seems potenti…
Say you have a government that does only two things, of equal cost. Feed hungry children, and make Statues of past leaders for city squares. Now imagine the budget of the government was cut in half by Congress. Which of these two things do you think they would stop doing? The answer is very likely to stop feeding hungry children. Tax payers will feel that pain and become irate at the budget cuts and demand the budget…
Yes, there's tremendous waste in the public sector.
But I've worked for large private enterprises most of my career, and there is astronomical waste there too.
I'd bet a year's salary that the waste in large private organizations is far greater than in large government organizations.
Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
The two arguments do not necessarily need to be mutually exclusive. You can have governance without monopoly. This would be the ideal scenario. Governments operate federal parks, but there are also private parks which are just as well kept, sometimes even better - and they do it at much lower costs. See for example, this small public bathroom which cost $2M to build: https://twitter.com/JohnStossel/status/10779219751…
I think it really did take 2 million dollars. The video explains why. We have decided to make a lot of trade offs when doing government infrastructure work that makes it really expensive. But this isn't government in general, it's American government specifically that is really inefficient at building things. In Texas I've been to over ten government run parks (like ones you'd go camping in), and I've never even hear…
The real problem is government is too damn big that it becomes impossible to separate out such concerns from every other aspect of government, and each time government expands, it adds more inefficiencies.
A park should be a self-contained enterprise so that it doesn't need outside government spending. If you take for example, Shinjuku Gyoen in Tokyo, you need to pay 100 yen to enter the park. The park gets millions of visitors a year, and the money it takes can easily pay for the upkeep of the park. It could be completely private, but in this particular case it is inherited from the imperial estate and is run by the government. The fee has the additional advantage that it keeps out vandals and thugs - only people who want to enjoy the park will pay for it.
Highways in Japan are mostly toll roads too. They're operated as companies with the intent on making profit. Some are privately owned, although most are government owned. The "who will build the roads?" complaint is one of the most common attempts to retort the argument for small government.
Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? > Overall it seems potentially damaging and disruptive for any organisation or individuals with dependencies on the government. Most people do not have dependencies on the government. You could live through a shutdown without noticing it had happened if not for the news coverage.
Not if you enjoy eating food or flying. Or are dependent on SNAP benefits. Or are a Native American. Or are trying to use constituent services with a freshman member of Congress. https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683642605/how-is-the-shutdown...
This isn't to say that the shutdown isn't a big deal but it should be grounded in the reality of who and what it actually affects.
The typical American could, at this point, realistically not notice anything is happening if it weren't for the news.
Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#115From reddit: > This article is overly hyperbolic. Some obscure subdomains of government websites are serving expired x509 certificates. They're not down and this definitely doesn't compromise the encryption that protects any login credentials. Anyway, it is embarassing to see certificate renewal is not automated - it's something any good sysadmin would have set up. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/aeps41/…
I handed this for one of the major beverage brands recently it was flagged when GA showed a massive decline - luckily it was one of the smaller noncore brands.
Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#116Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? I mean, apart from the loss of services, including websites, it seems like many federal workers aren't being paid. Will they be paid back after the shutdown impasse is resolved or is the money they didn't/couldn't earn lost to them. This seems unfair and, in the meantime, how are they supposed to go about their lives? Overall it seems potenti…
Now that a whole pay period has passed, the situation will become more tense & I expect a change to occur soon.
I hope Democrats make a deal with Trump, in which case Democrats win something (like real DACA legislation), Trump wins funding authorized for more border walls (less than what Democrats authorized several years ago for similar ones), and the government opens back up. The alternative is Democrats win nothing, Trump wins athority over many more billions of dollars via the national emergency route, and the governemnt opens back up - DACA later becomes an unsolved issue when the Supreme Court (likley) strikes it down.
Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#117Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Say you have a government that does only two things, of equal cost. Feed hungry children, and make Statues of past leaders for city squares. Now imagine the budget of the government was cut in half by Congress. Which of these two things do you think they would stop doing? The answer is very likely to stop feeding hungry children. Tax payers will feel that pain and become irate at the budget cuts and demand the budget…
> see what the fed wastes money on Yes, there's tremendous waste in the public sector. But I've worked for large private enterprises most of my career, and there is astronomical waste there too. I'd bet a year's salary that the waste in large private organizations is far greater than in large government organizations.
Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
They aren't getting paid. They will get paid when the shutdown is over, but they aren't getting paid right now. An important distinction. EDIT: I'm referring to the employees here, not contractors
But furloughed contractors are out of that pay permanently. You can't bill for hours you never worked.
Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They're choosing not to. For sound political reasons. You may not like those reasons, but they aren't being "obtuse" in the sense they do not understand what they are doing because they lack the wits to comprehend. Minimizing your opponent with those kinds of terms risks you underestimating them. The "base" that voted in most of the Senate voted in Trump. At the federal level, they pretty much count as a single vot…
> Would love to hear others' ideas on how Democrats can force Trump's hand on this shutdown issue, as this is certainly an interesting political problem that will be studied in the future by students of politics. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think the Democrats have backed themselves into a no-win situation. If they give in on the wall, it's an outright Republican victory. If they don't give in on the wall and…
If air traffic controllers start to quit for example, and air travel starts to shut down, then as a stopgap if it isn't a wide enough impact, Trump can order the armed forces to help direct air traffic. If it is a big enough impact, then the GOP can allow for a targeted bill just for the air traffic controllers. The DNC then finds itself in an unenviable position. Block the targeted funding bill just for the ATC's, and the mayhem squarely lands on them. Allow it to pass, and they start losing political points in this dominance game. It's not good optics for the DNC either way.
For some issues like food safety, we're not going to run into PRC-level, pre-FDA era food supply chain adulteration overnight, many fiscal quarters and years is more likely. It took decades in the PRC before the adulteration got to the levels we see today, and they still don't experience political unrest from it. The longer this shutdown runs, the more ammunition the DNC is handing GOP "small government" advocates' rhetoric (as over-caricatured as that rhetoric will be, and as wrong in its over-simplification it is, it will play well to the GOP base). The GOP wet dream is the shutdown drags on indefinitely, and they get to "starve the beast" by reverse-budgeting: find out what part of civilizational collapse becomes unacceptable due to lack of operations, fund only those parts, and devil take the hindmost. That's like a nightmare scenario for the DNC.
It can get worse, too. ATC example above: Trump orders a vestigial FAA to tell everyone using airspace they now can only access airspace if their special usage-tax is fully paid up, and budget all critical FAA functions via pure utility revenue collections. Or designates a private company to administer the airspace management, who collects revenue, and is granted by executive power the ability to regulate access to airspace, and disband the FAA. The salivating within GOP think tanks is almost audible.
The DNC appears to my casual observation to be playing right into the GOP's hands. I'm far, far from some kind of politics wonk/hacker, though. So I'd sure like to be shown a way out of the DNC's dilemma by political hackers who follow this stuff much more than I do.
I think if the DNC can put together a two-plus year budget plan in exchange for caving on the wall, then they take this corner they've been painted into out of the GOP's hands. By no means should the DNC accept temporary budget bills for just a month or so: that just loads more bullets into the chamber to shoot the DNC with more shutdowns.
By refusing to compromise ($5.7B is about a quarter of the estimated $25B entire wall project), the DNC backed the GOP into a corner with their base, where the GOP politicians got nothing to lose by pushing back. By raising the stakes into "for all the marbles", the DNC told these GOP politicians they have nothing to lose by demanding the entire $25B instead. If the DNC is going to play that kind of hardball, I sure would love to be a fly on the wall to hear what their strategy is.