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"Please take this down and write your own book."

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Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#111

Post by ebneter »

kenjackson wrote: post #23
mtsmith85 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would disagree about his personal brand, actually. I think that this is an example of Zed -- part and parcel. (And let me say right from the start, I love this guy's work and all that he brings to the table.) Zed has given immense amounts of code and work to the web community as a whole. It would be characteristically unlike Zed to not defend his work from what he views (and many others, I assume, including myself)…

* I, for one, appreciate someone who is so passionate about their work that they go to such lengths to defend it.* The ironic thing is that Zed's letter is similar to Bill Gates's letter to hobbyists 30 years, yet Bill has been historically flamed by the hacker community (requiring me to pay for software, is a larger crime than me stealing it). I wonder if identity politics play a larger role than ethical admiration.

Except that Zed has made lots of open source contributions -- just not this one. He does get to pick and choose how he wishes to release things.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#112

Post by nroach »

dctoedt wrote: post #64
johnny22 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

copyright is implicit in many places isn't it?

In the U.S., and AFAIK in much of the rest of the world, copyright arises automatically, without the need for either registration or a copyright notice, once the "original work of authorship" is "fixed" in a "tangible medium of expression" (which can include saving to disk). See generally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Obtaining_copyright

While the copyright itself can arise without registration, the ability to file suit in federal court for infringement of the copyright arises only once registered. Registration can take place after the date of infringement. For more see http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#register

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#113

Post by Semiapies »

martinemde wrote: post #107

Please see the README on the front page of the project with my update. https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way I've calmed a bit since the original postings. I can see why he was upset and I know that the right thing to do was to remove the book. I had good intentions and I did this out of homage, not to steal or claim any credit. I've always been a fan of Zed's work. I will continue to be despite getti…

This update would be better without the remaining defensiveness, but it is a much less wrong response.

I'm bewildered, though, at your saying that you're surprised at all the attention this has received when you've tried to publicize this incident.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#114

Post by Semiapies »

rbanffy wrote: post #109
tvon wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems he tried contact and was ignored. I don't think silence is consent in this case. The whole thing seems like an obviously bad idea to me...

I suppose most programmers find it better to ask for forgiveness then for permission.

Whether or not that's true, programmers who go for that approach need to be good at apologizing.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#115

Post by rbanffy »

JoeCortopassi wrote: post #86
epo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the circumstances I thought Zed was reasonably civil.

Totally agree. Trying to get a hold of someone, then assuming permission when they don't respond isn't ok. I'd be pissed to...

I would ask the person to take it down and that would be it. Zed asked, then insulted. Insulting people is not a good way to win someone's cooperation.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#117

Post by rbanffy »

Semiapies wrote: post #114
rbanffy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose most programmers find it better to ask for forgiveness then for permission.

Whether or not that's true, programmers who go for that approach need to be good at apologizing.

Zed over-reacted. Whatever harm martinemde did to Zed's book is close to nothing. Martinemde took down the derived book as soon as he got the request from Zed, who, while saying "please", also accompanied it with a couple insults.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#118

Post by Semiapies »

forsaken wrote: post #47
JanezStupar wrote: post #26

This is Zeeed Shaaaaw!!! I have never met the guy, but I surely hope that I get the privilege some day, even if he just picks on me and tells me that my work is worthless piece of junk and that if it implodes in a second it would be a service to the world - because that might be single most insightful and sincere analysis one might receive. Kudos to anyone with a pair, that is capable of speaking their mind in today'…

Zed is actually really nice in person.

Seeing many of the responses make me wonder whether he's even really as ogrish online as some people suggest. Most of what I've seen pointed out by angry folks seem to be responses to things those people aren't citing.

Seeing the full exchange in this case, I'm hard put to see anything unusual with what Shaw said. Nice people and polite people get justifiably angry, too.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#119

Post by martinemde »

Semiapies wrote: post #113
martinemde wrote: post #107

Please see the README on the front page of the project with my update. https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way I've calmed a bit since the original postings. I can see why he was upset and I know that the right thing to do was to remove the book. I had good intentions and I did this out of homage, not to steal or claim any credit. I've always been a fan of Zed's work. I will continue to be despite getti…

This update would be better without the remaining defensiveness, but it is a much less wrong response. I'm bewildered, though, at your saying that you're surprised at all the attention this has received when you've tried to publicize this incident .

I found the whole incident rather funny. Zed published a post about the issue, I published the issue since Zed didn't link it. I've never submitted to Hacker News and figured it'd get buried. I didn't expect top story on hacker news.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#120

Post by aplusbi »

16s wrote: post #63
joshuacc wrote: post #38

Interestingly, Martin has now updated the readme https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way#readme He concedes both of Zed's main points: 1. That he didn't have a legal right to "translate" the book 2. That "translating" the book from Python to Ruby didn't work all that well anyway The rest of the message boils down to a complaint that Zed wasn't nice enough in his takedown request. While Zed could have ph…

Not nice? He could have sent a settlement offer... pay me X dollars for damaging my reputation as an author and I will promise not to sue you. Some may argue that Zed was not "damaged" by this juvenile act, but a good lawyer would have no problem proving damage if push came to shove.

And he could have politely asked Martin to take it down. Zed was being "not nice" no matter how you look at it. He could have been worse, but that's like saying you shouldn't be mad because I punched you in the stomach instead of the face.

Edit: okay, the analogy is a strawman but seriously, just because someone could have been worse doesn't excuse their behavior. Telling someone they have no class is rude, especially when it's pretty clear that Martin wasn't trying to plagiarize Zed's book - he was just confused about its licensing.

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