Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

"Please take this down and write your own book."

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 178 posts

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#101

Post by JanezStupar »

citricsquid wrote: post #50
JanezStupar wrote: post #26

This is Zeeed Shaaaaw!!! I have never met the guy, but I surely hope that I get the privilege some day, even if he just picks on me and tells me that my work is worthless piece of junk and that if it implodes in a second it would be a service to the world - because that might be single most insightful and sincere analysis one might receive. Kudos to anyone with a pair, that is capable of speaking their mind in today'…

Like it or not Zed is entirely right here. It's his work, the guy had no permission, it has nothing to do with being "politically correct" it has everything to do with no being a dick and respecting a persons ownership and the effort they put into something. Whether or not Zed is the biggest dick in the world is irrelevant.

I didn't mean to imply that I disagree with Zed. I have read about a couple of his skirmishes and he does seem to be usually right.

What I wanted to get across is that I respect the guy. He always starts out civil: "Sir, I warn you not to advance any further.", but when his counterparty fails to acknowledge the warning proceeds to tear them a new one.

As somebody once said about a former boss: "You may think he's an asshole, but you can't say hes wrong."

I also think that Zed just likes to beat people at their own game in a manner of: "So... You wanna play dirty? Ok let's play dirty. I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head and piss into your dead skull!" :)

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#102

Post by ay »

mcknz wrote: post #45
swannodette wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope sarcasm is intended here, if so- that's funny.

Thought it interesting how absurd the "Monica" situation seems, yet we often engage in essentially the same behavior ourselves. That just doesn't sound as good on a bumper sticker. EDIT: clarification

Monica was the original author - did you mean to write the name of that lady who is (was?) with the Cooks Source ?

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#103

Post by [deleted] »

nkurz wrote: post #22
mathgladiator wrote: post #2

At some level, you have to love zed. He gives and gives to the world, and the world just craps on him. Of course, I have a feeling that his personal brand isn't going to be helped by this exchange.

I've been disappointed with the tone of some of Zed's comments here on HN, but this one struck me as perfectly polite and reasonable. His brand quality just got a big boost for me. I appreciate principles. Not everyone has to like every brand, and appealing to the least common denominator isn't always the best strategy.

[deleted]

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#104

Post by FraaJad »

martinemde wrote: post #84
scott_s wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it not as "I'm an amazing programmer because I work for Engine Yard," but "I work for a company that clearly depends on your work - I respect what you've done."

Thank you for this. It's been my intention this whole time to point out that I really enjoy all of Zed's work. And felt a attacked when I thought I was doing something good. I felt a translation was helpful, but I took it down immediately when I received a complaint. I like what Zed has done and use it daily. Working at Engine Yard is not something I see as being better than any other job, only that we're a prominent…

If you had shown the same humility and caution before calling him names AND posting inflammatory posts on HN, nobody would have known about this.

If you notice, he chose not to publicize this on twitter & HN unlike you.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#105

Post by rubyrescue »

pjscott wrote: post #76
scott_s wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it not as "I'm an amazing programmer because I work for Engine Yard," but "I work for a company that clearly depends on your work - I respect what you've done."

On behalf of everyone who tries to communicate over the internet, I'd like to thank you for assuming the nicer interpretation. It's easy to misinterpret someone's tone, and written communication goes so much more smoothly when people avoid making angry assumptions.

The entire response seems arrogant; that statement just captured it, and I don't think it's pulled out of the context of the tone of the response to Zed.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#106

Post by FraaJad »

mcknz wrote: post #10
jasonkester wrote: post #7

This is a good illustration of how tone doesn't come across well in writing. Reading the comment by the original author, it sounded like a friendly request to please take the content down. The guy whose site it was clearly didn't see it that way and responded as though he'd been viscously attacked. He ends up coming across as quite angry, when more likely he was just rattled and feeling defensive. I guess the takeawa…

"have some class" was probably a little over the top, but I can understand the frustration.

Taken in isolation, that might appear over the top, but as you can see from subsequent comments by martin on that thread and his attempts to elicit symapthy on HN by posting an inflammatory post [1] and tweeting about it [2], martin has clearly shown who has less class here.

On the contrary, Zed has chosen not broadcast this to the wide world though he is clearly the "injured" party here.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1873881 [2] http://twitter.com/#!/martinemde/status/589562699063297

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#107

Post by martinemde »

Please see the README on the front page of the project with my update.

https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way

I've calmed a bit since the original postings. I can see why he was upset and I know that the right thing to do was to remove the book. I had good intentions and I did this out of homage, not to steal or claim any credit.

I've always been a fan of Zed's work. I will continue to be despite getting defensive about this.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#108

Post by rbanffy »

jwhitlark wrote: post #51
rbanffy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I messaged you on Twitter and contacted you by email to try to give you knowledge of it. I was quite public about doing it as a _why day project. I made a good faith effort to let you know what I was working on. I even knew you were working on having a learn code the hard way thing and I wanted to contribute but there's no clear outline of your goals or how you expect people to contribute. This is my understanding o…

"You didn't respond to me" does not lead to "I can do what I want with material you post". Good faith means honoring people's wishes until they tell you otherwise. Aside: Normally I look for something like O'Reilly's statement "This book is to help you get your job done." The code is gone, so I can't tell where this would fall on the reasonableness continuum. Aside Aside: Zed's a nice guy in person; I'd guess the har…

I don't know Zed in person, but the harshness presented online is excessive. While I agree Linus can drive many programmers to tears I can't remember him calling anyone a hippie or saying someone lacks class.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#109

Post by rbanffy »

tvon wrote: post #43
rbanffy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I messaged you on Twitter and contacted you by email to try to give you knowledge of it. I was quite public about doing it as a _why day project. I made a good faith effort to let you know what I was working on. I even knew you were working on having a learn code the hard way thing and I wanted to contribute but there's no clear outline of your goals or how you expect people to contribute. This is my understanding o…

> It seems he tried contact and was ignored. I don't think silence is consent in this case. The whole thing seems like an obviously bad idea to me...

I suppose most programmers find it better to ask for forgiveness then for permission.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#110

Post by davidw »

DanHulton wrote: post #93
epo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the circumstances I thought Zed was reasonably civil.

Frankly, the older I get, the more respect I have for the guy. A lot of folks would have responded with a lawyer or at least a legal nastygram. Zed didn't even mention the law, just asked (asked!) the guy to take it down, and took the time to refute and explain all the guy's misconceptions.

> Frankly, the older I get, the more respect I have for the guy.

I lost a great deal of respect for him over his Debian rant. He was making up really weird accusations and calling for actions completely out of proportion to the perceived "offenses".

I think it's easy to do the rant thing, but the older I get, the less I like it, and the more respect I have for people who display some civility and moderation, and save the real anger for those things in life that merit it (hint: they mostly don't involve computers).

Post reply on HN