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Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

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Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#111

Post by soundwave106 »

rebuilder wrote: post #91
soundwave106 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I echo that the toilet hose or (apparently this is the common slang for them) "bum guns" that you see in many Asian restrooms would be pretty cool to retrofit to a Western restroom (they really are more sanitary than the simple paper wipe, MHO). They are indeed pretty cheap. Scanning forums, though, there are two points I see that one would have to consider. The first seems to be that hoses / sprayers can be little m…

When you say "Western", which countries are you referring to? I ask because in Finland at least, bidet showers are very common, although so are floor drains in toilets. Nevertheless, I'm not aware of any widespread issues with leaks or mis-spraying.

Sorry, by "Western" I more refer to the countries (United States, Canada, UK) where bidets of any sort do not seem to be common at all. There are also other Western countries (such as France, Germany, and Spain) where I remember bidets being common, but they were stand-alone plumbing fixtures and not a simple hose shower like you see in many Asian countries. This type is probably a lot more expensive to add onto a US bathroom or similar.

I wasn't aware of toilet hoses being standard in Finland, thanks for the information. I'm currently in Malaysia for a couple weeks and personally I am seeing a little bit of mis-spray when using some public restrooms; the misspray issue popped up when looking at forums as well as well. Maybe the issue can be more easily mitigated than I thought (personally, I don't have a problem making sure the spray stays inside the bowl) but plumbing codes might like the drain just in case (it's not easy looking up technical codes in an unfamiliar language so I'm not sure about this though :) ).

It is probably a lot harder to mitigate this type of issue with the "squat" type toilet (you see a random mixture of both types it seems over here).

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#112

Post by tialaramex »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #109

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to crea…

One of the things Gates' money pays for is Guinea Worm Eradication.

Guinea Worm is literally a parasitic worm. The eradication programme isn't about injecting people with a vaccination, building modern water treatment plants or deploying sophisticated drone technology, it's stuff like:

- Here are some free water filters. Filter the water from that murky pond before you drink it.

- When you have a worm, don't go in the water. Yes it feels cooler, that's because the worm wants you to go to the water, go to a free treatment clinic instead.

- If your neighbour has a worm, go to the clinic, tell them who the neighbour is, you both get cash money and the clinic will treat the worm. Hooray.

The biggest obstacles to Guinea Worm Eradication are not about Africa's lack of technology or its corruption.

The big obstacles are "insecurity" (ie civil wars or just violent criminals who control outlying areas) and "inaccessibility".

Inaccessibility is hard to comprehend for most of us, we're not used to truly being far from civilisation. People who live two days walk from anything resembling a road may have only heard rumours of the existence of the Guinea Worm clinics - for them a parasitic worm chewing its way out of your leg is just a routine hazard of normal rural living.

But yeah, Gates is already investing in the very lowest technology fixes, he isn't some tech nutjob who thinks we're going to solve desperate poverty with a Docker image.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#113

Post by baybal2 »

gtsteve wrote: post #106
baybal2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Western toilets aren’t the answer, because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants that just isn’t feasible in many poor countries. Then build it! No magic tricks there. I think, this is the most infuriating trait I see in all Silicon Valley "sophisticated person" types.

I'm not a civil engineer but I do work with them occasionally. There are numerous challenges with this, probably the hardest is water pressure: if the water pressure cannot be guaranteed then poor plumbing can send waste water back into the water main, which is a really big problem. I also assume that to ensure water pressure involves electricity - a lot of poorer countries do not have a constant or reliable electric…

>Building this sort of infrastructure is a massive engineering task

>It requires skilled engineers and labour

Exactly, and there are no tricks around that are known to solve that, other than to engage in massive infrastructure projects. A very simple thing.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#114

Post by baybal2 »

blowski wrote: post #102
baybal2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Western toilets aren’t the answer, because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants that just isn’t feasible in many poor countries. Then build it! No magic tricks there. I think, this is the most infuriating trait I see in all Silicon Valley "sophisticated person" types.

Build what? What trait?

Infrastructure: power stations, grid, water supply, sewage, roads, garbage removal.

Without that, you have no functioning cities, and without that, no modern day economy.

> What trait?

The believes in all kinds of trickery. No will to deal with issues the straight way. Such people spend more time looking for a shortcut, than dealing with an issue at hand.

Look: Mr. Gates spent $200m on a magic toilet that is nowhere to be found. That's enough to build 5 small electric power stations, and 5 small sewage treatment plants in a third world country.

How many people lives were improved with magic toilet, and how much by building more infrastructure.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#115

Post by SiempreViernes »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #109

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to crea…

He could well as, but I expect nobody would be much surprised over the answer: as you say, the problem of corruption is well known and merely exposing it again won't do much.

Tough if he secretly bought out a few accounting agencies and published all documents of the illicit money transfers going on that could probably have an effect as it makes the laundering harder.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#116

Post by ThomPete »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #109

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to crea…

The toilet he want to create are waterless its very important also to the africans but not at least for the large but often expensive cities that are going to grow over the next decades.

He is on of the few that actually do look for problems around him and solve them.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#117

Post by kiriakasis »

killjoywashere wrote: post #50
docbrown wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I always thought fascinating about Gates was his candid relationship with feces. mindfuplay’s comment reminded me of the famous glass of shit water Gates drank from his Omniprocessor project [0]. But within that 2015 article, Gates mentions a long term plan for seweage and shit[1]: >If we can develop safe, affordable ways to get rid of human waste, we can prevent many of those deaths and help more children…

> because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants How do you think economies grow? Job creation at this scale has to be funded out of tax receipts and bonds. The problem is managing the corruption (note: one must assume there are corrupt actors. The trick is managing them).

>> because they require a massive infrastructure of sewer lines and treatment plants

>How do you think economies grow?

sometimes not by taking debt for public infrastructure they have no way of maintaining

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#119

Post by sonnyblarney »

tialaramex wrote: post #112
sonnyblarney wrote: post #109

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to crea…

One of the things Gates' money pays for is Guinea Worm Eradication. Guinea Worm is literally a parasitic worm. The eradication programme isn't about injecting people with a vaccination, building modern water treatment plants or deploying sophisticated drone technology, it's stuff like: - Here are some free water filters. Filter the water from that murky pond before you drink it. - When you have a worm, don't go in th…

"The biggest obstacles to Guinea Worm Eradication are not about Africa's lack of technology or its corruption.

The big obstacles are "insecurity" (ie civil wars or just violent criminals who control outlying areas) and "inaccessibility".

"

This is a contradiction.

My grandparents grew up on farms way in the back country of Canada, in ruthlessly inhospitable weather, on not exactly fertile soil. When my ancestors landed there they were 'many days walk' from anything remotely resembling civilization.

And yet there were no 'civil gang wars' etc..

If there were civility and rule of law, there wouldn't be gangs controlling territory willy nilly, and the term 'two days walk' wouldn't exist because there would at least be some form of basic transport, however crude.

I do accept that there might be some specific problems (i.e. diseases) that make it much more difficult, and I don't think Gates is wasting everyone's time - however - he's not after root causes, which are civic.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#120

Post by C1sc0cat »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #109

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to crea…

erm low tech tech like Bill is funding is the right tech in this case.

And you work with the political system you have not the one you would like.

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