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In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

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Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#111

Post by LyndsySimon »

DanBC wrote: post #87
jowsie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is simply sticking something in your pocket enough reason for them to kick off? In the UK at least I've been shoving stuff in hoodie pockets if I can't carry it all in my hands. You might occasionally get funny looks but no one has said anything to me, or the other people I know that do it.

In England and Wales you haven't completed the offence until you walk out the store. (And even then you need to have dishonestly appropriated the item, not just forgotten it's in a pocket). So you might have a guard following you around but they shouldn't be doing much more until you leave.

As far as I know, that’s the case in the US as well.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#112

Post by andrew_ »

paulie_a wrote: post #85
andrew_ wrote: post #22

Tossing in my own anecdotal experience: I worked in Loss Prevention (plain clothes security) for a major midwest retail chain, within 10 miles of a major metropolitan city for several years. We absolutely profiled customers. The catch is that we profiled teenagers of the Caucasian persuasion. Why? Because they were the folks most likely to try and lift goods. Folks wearing unnecessarily baggy clothing (think more tha…

Was the eldery a significant group? This is anecdotal but I've consistently heard from cops and even a couple of police chiefs that theft is pretty common in that demographic.

Oddly enough apprehensions in the 70+ age group most often revolved around produce. Typically the story we got was that they were bored or just felt like doing something "exciting" rather than anything to do with cost. Those apprehensions were typically under $5 USD so it was the proverbial slap on the wrist.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#113

Post by isoskeles »

matt4077 wrote: post #58
mattigames wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you are saying is that profiling against a group with a history of appalling treatment at the hands of the majority is one thing, but doing the same with a different profiling is wrong, because clothing is clearly a choice but skin color is clearly not; despite being white boys raised among hundreds of people with the same clothing preference we should expect such young men to go against their surroundings an…

No, they're not saying that. Although there's a bit of merit to the idea, and it's part of the justification for choice of groups protected by anti-discrimination laws. Here's two more arguments: - When such profiling is actually a contradiction of the traditional, racist stereotypes, it is far easier to believe that it's actually the result of learned experience, and therefore part of an honest attempt to be effecti…

Were they seriously making fun of you for being short? It sounds more like a joke wherein they say/do something blatantly untrue. How absurd, to taunt an above-average-in-height man for being short.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#114

Post by stephengillie »

Amazon Go's model is "Extreme Loss Prevention" - have no checkers, monitor all customers, and just charge their account for what they "shoplifted".

Amazon Go stores are classist and ageist in a different way than traditional retail, because they effectively ban customers who don't have an Amazon account, or don't have a bank account backing the Amazon account, or don't have a smartphone. My parents couldn't shop there because they don't want to use smartphones.

Supposedly, the machine-vision and algorithms aren't quite there yet, and the stores depend on a very large human element behind the cameras.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#115

Post by Greed »

pcurve wrote: post #2

I feel horrible for what she went through as a child, and still goes through. But. For this article, if felt she was over-analyzing and extrapolating a bit much. This one felt borderline unnecessary and hyperbolic: "No one cared what I was doing. Is this what it feels like to shop when you're not black? "

If it sounds ridiculous to you, it's because it is. The fact that you find it absurd only really underlines the point being made there, and that point is that "doing things while black" is a lifetime of uncomfortable, unnecessary, and subtly discriminatory experiences that you learn to expect and prepare for.

I assume if you're on HN that you have at least one well-paid black coworker in tech. Ask them how often they get uncomfortable, questioning looks while walking around their own neighborhood and you'll see exactly how hyperbolic that statement is.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#116

Post by jtbayly »

stanleydrew wrote: post #5
jtbayly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where I stopped reading. The answer is "no."

I would say the answer is "yes." Or at least that's how I feel when I shop, and I'm not black.

I’m white and I don’t feel that way. So obviously it isn’t being “white” or not that determines whether you feel that way while shopping.

And I feel incredibly similarly to her when I walk into Starbucks and pickup my prepaid drink. I imagine I would feel just like her shopping at Amazon Go as well.

I’m not denying there are differences in how you are treated depending on your race. In fact, as a father of black children it is my responsibility to make them aware of the extra level of care they need to engage, during shopping for example.

But the feelings she shares are not unique to being black.

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#118

Post by Markoff »

DanBC wrote: post #87
jowsie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is simply sticking something in your pocket enough reason for them to kick off? In the UK at least I've been shoving stuff in hoodie pockets if I can't carry it all in my hands. You might occasionally get funny looks but no one has said anything to me, or the other people I know that do it.

In England and Wales you haven't completed the offence until you walk out the store. (And even then you need to have dishonestly appropriated the item, not just forgotten it's in a pocket). So you might have a guard following you around but they shouldn't be doing much more until you leave.

i would think this it's same in any country with laws, except it's walking past cashiers

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#119

Post by Markoff »

eksemplar wrote: post #62

I’m a white Scandinavian male, well dressed and always looking like I belong in any higher class setting, but I would love this concept as well. I have anxiety and even though it’s not really hindering me in any way, I still double check my damn bag before I enter a store and I always make sure to get a receipt to be able to prove I paid, even though I’ve never even been looked over by store security. Normal people w…

i have exactly opposite way of thinking, they should prove i stole something, not me worrying about carrying receipts during multiple shops visits

Re: In Amazon Go, no one thinks I'm stealing

#120

Post by stanleydrew »

jtbayly wrote: post #116
stanleydrew wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the answer is "yes." Or at least that's how I feel when I shop, and I'm not black.

I’m white and I don’t feel that way. So obviously it isn’t being “white” or not that determines whether you feel that way while shopping. And I feel incredibly similarly to her when I walk into Starbucks and pickup my prepaid drink. I imagine I would feel just like her shopping at Amazon Go as well. I’m not denying there are differences in how you are treated depending on your race. In fact, as a father of black chil…

I don't dispute any of this. I think people may have lost the thread a little bit. The author's statement was

> No one cared what I was doing. Is this what it feels like to shop when you're not black?

The author does imply that all black people are eyed with suspicion when shopping, which is impossible to say but almost surely not true.

However the answer to the question can still be "yes" without giving in to the implication.

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