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A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#111

Post by filoeleven »

akvadrako wrote: post #88
noahdesu wrote: post #51

One thing people talk about is the short-lived effects of DMT, and how they would like more time in the the DMT space. But as I understand it, your body doesn't build up a resistance to it. The DMTx [0] project is seeking to exploit this property and created extended-state DMT experiences using some basic medical techniques. Also, they are looking for volunteers. [0]: https://www.dmtx.org

Why can't they just use an intravenous drip?

IV drip doesn’t have the amount of fine regulation and monitoring necessary to keep someone in the DMT state. Last I heard they were planning to get a dialysis machine to do it.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#112

Post by filoeleven »

drakonka wrote: post #99
erikpukinskis wrote: post #55

> “There is nothing here to begin to enable us to propose that on DMT, you literally transcend the laws of this universe and do actually go to another world,” he says. This is faulty thinking. An afterlife doesn’t presuppose a violation of natural laws, or a separate world. It just means you continue living in a different form. The only thing that would be required for that is a causal relationship (yet to be observe…

Thank you for sharing. I think too often we assume the concept of an "afterlife" implies some kind of supernatural or religious phenomenon. Since we don't have proof of it I can't say I definitely believe such a thing exists, but I certainly believe it's possible. If there is an "afterlife" I believe it fits into our natural laws and can be explained and observed scientifically - we just haven't discovered all of the…

It’s tricky, because the kinds of natural laws that are necessary for the existence of an afterlife are the same kinds of natural laws that invalidate the principle of physicalism or materialism, which is the consensus view of the scientific establishment today. So if you decide to investigate something easier to test for than “the afterlife” which could also plausibly exist with these expanded natural laws—like remote viewing, or the effects that consciousness has on physical systems—your research will be generally dismissed as quackery. Not many folks will try to replicate your results, or even spend the effort to examine them deeply for flaws, because the assumption is “we already know that cannot happen, so you’ve done something wrong in your setup or you’re lying.”

There is plenty of evidence out there that points to something odd going on; the challenge lies in getting more skeptics to seriously evaluate it. Some HNer years ago turned me onto the book Irreducible Mind, whose last hundred pages or so is a bibliography of evidence for this kind of thing provided by people who say “I don’t believe it, but I can’t explain it.” But a lot of that evidence comes from skeptics testing exceptional individuals, and James Randi did a good job of showing how fakers can fool scientists, so I can’t really say how reliable it is other than as a jumping-off point for further study.

I came across an interesting and more rigorous set of studies done recently on how consciousness can influence quantum effects. They had observers try to influence the amount of interference generated by the double-slit experiment, and have repeatedly under various conditions gotten a significant effect. Perhaps most interesting is that while all humans had an effect, the meditators reliably outperformed the non-meditators. The setup is simple enough that it’s just begging for replication.

Here’s the video link for any curious folks. Skip the first 5 minutes which is just a refresher on what the double slit experiment is:

https://youtu.be/nRSBaq3vAeY

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#113

Post by therein »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #55

> “There is nothing here to begin to enable us to propose that on DMT, you literally transcend the laws of this universe and do actually go to another world,” he says. This is faulty thinking. An afterlife doesn’t presuppose a violation of natural laws, or a separate world. It just means you continue living in a different form. The only thing that would be required for that is a causal relationship (yet to be observe…

Very well put. Not taking a stance, but rather just analyzing the constraints on possible conclusions.

> The only thing that would be required for that is a causal relationship (yet to be observed in science) between your dying mind and some other living structure.

Especially this part is phrased so accurately. Of course we are yet to observe anything similar to it either. Something that survives death and is capable of supporting thought. It would have to be something material, right?

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#114

Post by noahdesu »

akvadrako wrote: post #88
noahdesu wrote: post #51

One thing people talk about is the short-lived effects of DMT, and how they would like more time in the the DMT space. But as I understand it, your body doesn't build up a resistance to it. The DMTx [0] project is seeking to exploit this property and created extended-state DMT experiences using some basic medical techniques. Also, they are looking for volunteers. [0]: https://www.dmtx.org

Why can't they just use an intravenous drip?

I think they are [0]:

> "Using pharmacokinetic modeling and DMT blood sampling data, we demonstrate that the unique pharmacological characteristics of DMT, which also include a rapid onset and lack of acute tolerance to its subjective effects, make it amenable to administration by target-controlled intravenous infusion. This is a technology developed to maintain a stable brain concentration of anesthetic drugs during surgery."

[0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944667/

edit: I guess that isn't a drip. I know nothing about this sort of thing :)

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#115

Post by simonsaidit »

breatheoften wrote: post #13

I just associate DMT with nausea — and have no desire to repeat that pain. I did an ayuasca ceremony and only managed to drink one dose (you are encouraged to drink a lot more) — but my body felt so awful and all the evidence suggested the pretty obvious cause that there was no part of me that wanted to drink more and I felt completely fine with my decision to stop.

Try changa/ smoke dmt. Its without the nausia, shorter and more intense.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#116

Post by simonsaidit »

mirimir wrote: post #48
dkersten wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ayuasca and smoked DMT are too very different experiences.

Yes. And the article didn't make that clear enough. The biological lifetime of DMT is very short, because there are enzymes (monoamine oxidase aka MAO) in many tissues. So the effects last 15-30 minutes. But ayahuasca includes MAO inhibitors, so the effects can last for many hours. And it's mainly the MAO inhibitors that make users feel ill.

Changa includes rima (hamalas from b.capii) and lasts around an hour if good. And No nausia or effect from food.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#117

Post by simonsaidit »

noahdesu wrote: post #51

One thing people talk about is the short-lived effects of DMT, and how they would like more time in the the DMT space. But as I understand it, your body doesn't build up a resistance to it. The DMTx [0] project is seeking to exploit this property and created extended-state DMT experiences using some basic medical techniques. Also, they are looking for volunteers. [0]: https://www.dmtx.org

Adding hamalas a rima Will prolong the experience to around 1 hour if smoked. Using hamalas eg putting it under your toungue first Can prolong it to several hours. The changa trip is Also much more benefitial and feels nicer.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#118

Post by simonsaidit »

md224 wrote: post #58
noahdesu wrote: post #51

One thing people talk about is the short-lived effects of DMT, and how they would like more time in the the DMT space. But as I understand it, your body doesn't build up a resistance to it. The DMTx [0] project is seeking to exploit this property and created extended-state DMT experiences using some basic medical techniques. Also, they are looking for volunteers. [0]: https://www.dmtx.org

That sounds awesome. I wish I could pay to lie in a hospital bed and have a medical professional administer intravenous DMT just for a short period (at least initially). Hopefully this work will bring us closer to a world where supervised DMT voyages are available to the public.

Make your own changa its quite easy and pure dmt you dont need to inject... too much you wont Remember What happend anyway.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#119

Post by mirimir »

simonsaidit wrote: post #116
mirimir wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And the article didn't make that clear enough. The biological lifetime of DMT is very short, because there are enzymes (monoamine oxidase aka MAO) in many tissues. So the effects last 15-30 minutes. But ayahuasca includes MAO inhibitors, so the effects can last for many hours. And it's mainly the MAO inhibitors that make users feel ill.

Changa includes rima (hamalas from b.capii) and lasts around an hour if good. And No nausia or effect from food.

Hey, thanks for that!

I used to have a book about ayahusca-like formulations, using plants from various continents. But I've forgotten the name. Basically, many plants contain DMT, and many others contain MAO inhibitors. Also, I believe that one can combine some MAO inhibiting antidepressants, such as selegiline, with DMT.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#120

Post by mirimir »

browsercoin wrote: post #106
tr8 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so weird. I experienced the same thing the first time I took mushrooms as a teenager. I had no idea what a trip was. There were a few notable things in the trip but one thing that stood out was the eye of providence. I can't for the life of me think why that appeared since it's not something I can really associate with anything in my life up to that point. I'm not a religious person and not very spiritual but…

that's whats fucked up about it. I am not religious at all. Yet, what I experienced was on a spiritual level with real changes. it's crazy how common the themes are. did you hear extra-terrestrials? Like I literally heard a thought broadcasted from somewhere not on earth with the message "we aren't from earth but we are gonna help you out. clean your fucking room. move your computer to living room. get your shit toge…

People joke about fatuous "meaning of life" insights. But in my experience, you often do see "the big picture" of your life, and of everything. However, it's hard to remember stuff like that. And it fades pretty quickly, back into the slog of day-to-day life. I also got that from doing work with est/Landmark, NLP, Tony Robbins, etc. Not that they encourage the use of psychedelics ;)

I'm reminded of Tool's "Rosetta Stoned".[0,1]

    ...
    10 to 2 AM, X, Yogi DMT, and a box of Krispy Kremes
    ...
    When a flaming stealth banana split the sky
    ...
    Then the X-Files being
    ...
    Did a slow-mo Matrix descent
    Outta the butt end of the banana vessel
    And hovered above my bug-eyes, my gaping jaw
    ...
    He said, "You are the chosen one
    The one who will deliver the message
    A message of hope for those who choose to hear it
    And a warning for those who do not."
    ...
    See, they took me by the hand
    And invited me right in
    Then they showed me something
    I don't even know where to begin
    ...
    Can't remember what they said
    ...
    Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position
    Such a heavy burden now to be the one
    Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending
    To write it down for all the world to see
    But I forgot my pen
    ...
0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZXJLQntCP0

1) https://genius.com/Tool-rosetta-stoned-lyrics

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