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A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

bbc.co.uk

41–50 of 142 posts

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#41
post #10
post #8

If anyone is in NYC this week, this conference on DMT has a ridiculously stacked speaker list: https://events.theassemblage.com/dmtdialogues

A HN friend and I are going to this. Email in bio if anyone attending is interested in meeting up.

I’m looking into it for at least part of the day.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#42
The key distinction here is between dying and all of the unpleasant stuff that normally comes with it. I've experienced loss of body awareness with LSD, psilocybin and DMT. But what didn't come with it was pain, cardiopulmonary stress, cramping, and so on. So it was easy to relax, and let go of body and consciousness. With just naked virtual awareness left.

So anyway, I can imagine that a pleasant death from opioid or barbiturate overdose might be comparable. Or maybe breathing helium, where there's no overt respiratory feedback. Or maybe hypothermia, although in my experience that involved too much twitching around.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#43
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People experience death (and psychoactives) in a variety of ways, and its metaphorical usage reflects that. The meat-grinder sense maps better to stimulants (ie., caffeine, amphetamine, etc) whereas the exhausting, perhaps harrowing and enlightening sense of death is what we tend to experience with the psychedelics.

back in the day I experimented with psilocybin mushrooms and experienced what is called 'ego death'. basically, you lose a sense of self and identity. You are literally a blank slate. It was a surreal experience and I felt panicky like 'oh shit i think im dead but im still concious'. Before I reached this state I was seeing math formulas everywhere. Basically when my internal thoughts stopped, that is I was experienc…

Yeah, that can be a frightening state. And yet, it was my favorite part, during the peak of the peak. To some degree, the rest of the trip was just something to be endured. Although I eventually learned to go dancing or bike riding or whatever.

The absolute worst combination is marijuana on the tail of an LSD peak. Your short term memory drops to about 100 msec. I spent a few hours, decades ago, reminding a friend who they were, and that everything would be OK in a few hours. And it was hard work, because I could barely remember who I was, and who they were ;)

edit: clarity

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#44
post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

It could be social. Imagine the family surrounding the deathbed of an elder, dying relative. It's probably the case that the relative is observed closely while 'crossing over,' and depending on the relatives' interpretation of what's happening to their dying loved one, they may be left at peace or in turmoil. So maybe DMT has to do with creating the desired appearance to communicate to loved ones at the deathbed.

The standard cocktail was morphine, cocaine and ethanol. Now they usually just do "inadvertent" opioid overdoses.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#45

“My body just didn’t seem relevant anymore," says Iona. "And I felt like I arrived in some consciousness soup which seemed like a different realm to the one I ordinarily inhabit – even in dreams. It just seemed like everything was rotating and swirling and spiralling. It didn’t seem like there were normal space-time proportions going on.” I'm not exactly sure how close I came to dying, but I had the exact opposite ex…

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Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#46
Ive done DMT probably 10-15 times in my life so far but quit all recreational drugs ~3 years ago. My last trip being the most intense; me and a friend used a dabbing rig and poured about a gram of dmt onto the heated metal nail - for 20 minutes but what seemed like eternity I Observed the birth, life, and death of myself multiple times over until I finally came back down to the ‘real world’.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#47

I just associate DMT with nausea — and have no desire to repeat that pain. I did an ayuasca ceremony and only managed to drink one dose (you are encouraged to drink a lot more) — but my body felt so awful and all the evidence suggested the pretty obvious cause that there was no part of me that wanted to drink more and I felt completely fine with my decision to stop.

Did you not expect that going in? Or it was worse than anticipated?

I had the understanding beforehand — but the pain completely overwhelmed the amount of curiosity I had for the experience — brain said don’t drink more - and after that it was just sitting in a painful body until recovery ...

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#48

I just associate DMT with nausea — and have no desire to repeat that pain. I did an ayuasca ceremony and only managed to drink one dose (you are encouraged to drink a lot more) — but my body felt so awful and all the evidence suggested the pretty obvious cause that there was no part of me that wanted to drink more and I felt completely fine with my decision to stop.

ayuasca and smoked DMT are too very different experiences.

Yes. And the article didn't make that clear enough. The biological lifetime of DMT is very short, because there are enzymes (monoamine oxidase aka MAO) in many tissues. So the effects last 15-30 minutes. But ayahuasca includes MAO inhibitors, so the effects can last for many hours. And it's mainly the MAO inhibitors that make users feel ill.

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#49

Ive done DMT probably 10-15 times in my life so far but quit all recreational drugs ~3 years ago. My last trip being the most intense; me and a friend used a dabbing rig and poured about a gram of dmt onto the heated metal nail - for 20 minutes but what seemed like eternity I Observed the birth, life, and death of myself multiple times over until I finally came back down to the ‘real world’.

did you regret that last one? how much of a DMT trip can you actually remember?

Re: A DMT trip 'feels like dying' – and scientists now agree

#50
post #23

Can anyone give a reason in darwinian terms, for why brains would evolve a feeling of detachment and contentment near death? I can't project a selfish-gene reason. Maybe, if you hypothesise its in the 'I die, so others live' space, its like altruistic behaviour and favours the group genome, not the individual

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