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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#111

Post by akvadrako »

akx wrote: post #97
chmars wrote: post #91

Melatonin is usually not (freely) sold in Europe while it can be easily bought in the US like vitamin pills or cod liver oil. Is there a recommendable online option with international delivery? (I don't consider the usual 'online pharmacies' recommendable. Even when buying Melatonin in a store in the US, there's still the issue that Melatonin manufacturers and sellers mostly control themselves …)

Huh. Melatonin is readily available in pharmacies and shops here in Finland.

I don't know why the parent said "Europe", unless they did a survey of all the laws. Drugs are mostly regulated at the country level.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#112

Post by canttestthis »

beagle3 wrote: post #106
canttestthis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10,000 IU is the upper limit recommended by researchers, but afaik 4,000 is the more commonly accepted/advised number.

The recommended dose and limit are body weight dependent, age and light/uv exposure influenced.

Yes, agreed, but the 10,000 IU number is on the very upper end of the recommended intake in some research papers regardless of your body weight and age, and about twice as high as the upper recommended intake in current medical consensus. I'm also not a doctor but I would just ask anyone considering 10,000 IU / day for a long period after reading this post to run it by their doctor first.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#113

Post by tigershark »

rofo1 wrote: post #108
skadamat wrote: post #8

Every single person here, if your serious about diving into the science of sleep, should read Matthew Walker's book: Why We Sleep: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... His interview on Joe Rogan is a good summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig He covers everything from why we sleep (obv), naps, melatonin, etc. I've just finished it and really enjoyed it.

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association) Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.…

I don’t really think it works in the same way for humans. I have been doing it for decades and I can assure you that my body fat increases if I overeat.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#115

Post by rofo1 »

GuardianCaveman wrote: post #66

I never took it because I read a long time ago that it causes your body to decrease melatonin production long term. I guess that’s just a myth because people in this thread seem very positive about using it long term.

The best book on this topic (that I've read) "Why We Sleep" is uniformly against all kinds of medicine.

There isn't long-term effect after 6 months (I think) of any sleep medicine, according to certain studies. The effect literally "wears off", despite the subjective notion of the user.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#116

Post by alecco »

andy_ppp wrote: post #109
jwilliams wrote: post #100

I regularly take long haul flights (12+ hours) and take Melatoin for Jet Lag. I'll take twice. With the flights I take this usually works out to before sleeping on the plane (which ideally is the same/close to bed-time at the destination). And then the first night at the destination. In combination with other tricks -- I've found it really effective.

What are the other tricks, I’ve always found jet lag horrendous.

Water fast for 13 to 16 hours before the time you want to wake up. And have a large breakfast right then.

https://hbr.org/2009/05/a-fast-solution-to-jet-lag

https://www.google.com/search?q=jet+lag+fast+hours

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#117

Post by nickthemagicman »

stealthmodeclan wrote: post #104

When I was working long hours at an startup. My sleep cycle got disturbed. Here is what works for me: 1. Reduce room temperature to 25*C. Go to bed at 10:30pm 2. Automatically shutdown the airconditioner at 4:30am. 3. Jump out of bed at 5am without any alarm clock. This habit continues in the month when no airconditioner is needed.

25c is 77f. That's way too hot for me. I need max 70, 65 ideally. With a blanket.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#118

Post by blurbleblurble »

canttestthis wrote: post #96
beagle3 wrote: post #85

While melatonin helped me, the results were inconsistent. However, 10,000IU of vitamin D3 before 10am (see e.g. [0] for discussion and analysis that do NOT support my regime) seem to consistently give me a good reliable sleep schedule. I was definitely not as thorough as Gwern, nor comparing to placebo - but for decades I have tried tens of different sleep aids, most of them useless, some working for a couple of week…

10,000 IU is the upper limit recommended by researchers, but afaik 4,000 is the more commonly accepted/advised number.

Wasn't there a recent study suggesting that the recommended daily value was off by a factor of ~10?

I think an important thing to consider is that if your going to take large amounts of vitamin D, you should also be getting enough magnesium to prevent unhealthy calcification.

In the winter, I've taken one time doses of ~40,000 IU every few weeks or so, (always in the morning of course). I remember reading that 40,000 IU every single day for more than 3 months was what it would take for many people to develop hypercalcemia. Because vitamin D is fat soluble, that made me feel pretty safe taking a large mega dose from time to time. The effects of a large megadose are emotionally palpable.

But I will say that the magnesium also seems important. I have a sensitive ankle that was once run over by a taxi and got badly sprained. Last winter, I started taking daily vitamin D without magnesium, and was probably doing about 10,000 IU/day. After a week or so, I noticed that my ankle was acting up more than usual. I took an epsom salt bath (magnesium sulfate) and it helped immediately.

(https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-getting...)

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#119

Post by blurbleblurble »

beagle3 wrote: post #105
ak39 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Beagle, Is this a daily dose of D3 of 10,000 IU? And for how long have you been taking it?

Daily dose, have been for ~6 years now, not religiously - when traveling for less than a week I usually don’t take any with me, and I deliberately take a couple of weeks off every year to see if it still makes any difference (after 2-4 weeks, it starts becoming harder to fall asleep again, after which I wait another week and restart). 50,000 daily for a month is toxic, though afaik 20,000 has no “period of time it be…

Do you also take magnesium?

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#120

Post by rofo1 »

tigershark wrote: post #113
rofo1 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association) Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.…

I don’t really think it works in the same way for humans. I have been doing it for decades and I can assure you that my body fat increases if I overeat.

Have you been doing TRE in 8 hour intervals? There was a study on this as well, and it turns out a lot of people simply think they are doing TRE, but once they start writing down exactly what they eat and exactly when, turns out it's far away from TRE.

I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories, but I keep an open mind for now until someone can refute it. The blood sugar thing makes sense to me with what I know about melatonin suppressing the insulin - that's a fact. But the rest of the conclusion.. who knows.

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