Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#111

Post by KMag » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

Veelox wrote: post #109

throwaway98371 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a really conservative, deeply religious (Protestant Christian) family. My parents loved me and did their best to raise me according to their beliefs, but their beliefs were both absurdly strict and also ridiculously unsupportable by the scientific evidence that, as a book- and science-obsessed teenager, I was absorbing at a rapid pace. Given that I was quickly disbelieving everything I had been raised to…

Personally, I think 16 is way to young to be experimenting with drug. The effects are to powerful to give to an under-developed brain.

What if the OP personally believes that drugs are most beneficial to under-developed brains?

Are you a researcher, or are your opinions based on some research you could cite?

Now, there are several good reasons to exercise increased caution in the absence of evidence when dealing with under-developed brains of people with a lot more years ahead of them, but that's much different from a blanket strong opinion.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#112

Post by cecilpl2 » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

tranchms wrote: post #13

“LSD comes from bacteria.” This is wrong. LSD is synthesized from ergot, a fungus that grows on rye. An oversight like this throws the authors entire credibility into question. Know your subject matter.

It most certainly does not. I'd hazard that 80% of the population doesn't even know the difference between bacteria and fungus. They are both single-celled organisms and for most people, biology class was a long time ago.

It's equivalent to a terminology simplification that doesn't take away from the central point of the article.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#113

Post by alexandercrohde » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 5:21 PM UTC

I'm not sure why anybody would publish something like this, it is irresponsible.

It's an important question of how drugs affect people. And there is only 1 way to answer that: rigorous scientific study.

Why we need controlled studies:

NOT self-reporting. You cannot take a substance that by definition disconnects you from reality, then take the hallucinating person's account of improvement as evidence. That is laughable.

NOT anecdotes.

MUST BE ANONYMOUS. This writer has a financial incentive to overhype to get more clicks.

No SELECTION BIAS. I want to hear accounts from the people who never recovered from acid too.

--

I largely think the drug war is absurd. But any magazine running a piece like this is absurd.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#114

Post by tpm » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #105

RangerScience wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wildly uninformed about these experiences. There's no "truth" that they show you. You just... have an experience. And then you think about it. And then maybe it changes you, maybe it doesn't. Just like any other day, only turned up to 11, dose-dependent.

Why are you so convinced that they don't show you any truth?

Where would that truth come from? Psychedelics are just chemicals, they don't come with some sort of divine truth, they just reconfigure you brain for a few hours. As a result, you may see the content of your brain, and the world around you, in a different light. You may find some 'truths' this way, but there is no guarantee.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#115

Post by DoreenMichele » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

KMag wrote: post #111

Veelox wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I think 16 is way to young to be experimenting with drug. The effects are to powerful to give to an under-developed brain.

What if the OP personally believes that drugs are most beneficial to under-developed brains? Are you a researcher, or are your opinions based on some research you could cite? Now, there are several good reasons to exercise increased caution in the absence of evidence when dealing with under-developed brains of people with a lot more years ahead of them, but that's much different from a blanket strong opinion.

In support of your point:

If you have special needs children with brain issues, early intervention is best. Doing something about the problem while they are very young can lead to lifelong enhanced productivity and quality of life. On the flip side, trying to intercede and screwing it up can have lifelong negative consequences.

I'm generally pro nutrition, not pro drug, but I'm not anywhere near as anti drug as most people imagine me to be. Anecdotally, I have known people who had anger management issues and the like who did the kind of drugs that mellow you out.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#116

Post by axedwool » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

fithisux wrote: post #50

Now that corporates cannot sell more TVs, food, travels, loans, phones, they have turned to the good old business model of turning their customers into junkies. Sustainable business model, extremely profitable and extremely anti-competitive, .... but rules are for fools. As time permits doctors and psychologists will have their share of the spoils like tobacco. Personally I would turn the tide and put cigarettes on p…

Your solution is to further overload the police and prison systems?

If we as humans went bankrupt, it was when we decided to start having the government police what substances people can and cannot use.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#117

Post by toomanybeersies » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #110

toomanybeersies wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I mean though. I'm not saying that nobody gets spiritual experiences, but rather that it's just a function of our brain. You aren't connecting to some higher power, you're connecting to your brain in a different state. Like having the radio tuned between two different channels. It can still be mind expanding, one thing I've definitely discovered from psychedelics is that our senses are subjective. But I t…

"you won't find a higher meaning, you'll just think you did, it's an illusion" So how do you distinguish the illusion from the real thing, as far as higher meaning goes?

You're not really talking to Jesus.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#118

Post by fjsolwmv » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #89

jdietrich wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a rather worrying trend of psychedelics being "sold" as a safe panacea. If you believe the cheerleaders, psychedelics are powerful enough to rapidly cure mental illness and facilitate profoundly positive personality changes, but have only trivial side-effects. That doesn't seem particularly plausible to me - there aren't many medicines that are both very potent and very safe. The stereotype of the burned-out…

Fwiw, I’ve done mdma a hundred times and lsd and mushrooms a few dozen times, haven’t don’t either in over a decade, and don’t drink, and I’m a perfectly well adjusted software engineer with a wife and two kids and a house in the suburbs. And I attribute the fact that I am a well adjusted person today to having done psychedelics in my 20s, because I was an absolute disaster as a human being coming out of high school…

How do you know the psychedelics are what fixed you?

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#119

Post by lotsofpulp » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 6:44 PM UTC

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #74

lotsofpulp wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t excuse my parents behavior just because it came from “love”. They didn’t know any better, but they also refused my attempts to educate them multiple times. To me, that says their ego and need to assume things about their “afterlife” was more important than pursuing valid data and analysis, not a good trait in my opinion.

So who had a better experience? You or the guy who learned about acceptance and transcendence?

I'm not sure how one could compare, or how it was implied that I didn't "accept" my parents? I have a good relationship with them, I just don't agree with excusing bad parenting because it came from "love". I'm still happy to have them as parents, and since I'm financially independent, it doesn't matter to me what my parents' assumptions about afterlives is as they have no way to waste my time with it.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#120

Post by pmoriarty » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

tpm wrote: post #114

pmoriarty wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you so convinced that they don't show you any truth?

Where would that truth come from? Psychedelics are just chemicals, they don't come with some sort of divine truth, they just reconfigure you brain for a few hours. As a result, you may see the content of your brain, and the world around you, in a different light. You may find some 'truths' this way, but there is no guarantee.

"Where would that truth come from? Psychedelics are just chemicals"

Are they just chemicals, though? Some people think they are themselves divine. One example of this can be seen in the attitude of worship of some Native American societies towards peyote or psychedelic mushrooms. Some people think they allow communication with the spirit world, or with their ancestors, or with gods.

Even if they are "just chemicals" that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't show you truth. After all, you could say your entire brain is "just chemicals" and if you are basically your brain, any truth you happen to come across is the result of "just chemicals" of one sort or another. Further, pretty much the entire world could be described as "just chemicals". That itself does not diminish the possibility of finding truth in it or through it.