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Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

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Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#111

Post by andybak »

rqs wrote: post #47
andybak wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget "useful" for a moment. How does good VR make you feel? Have you not had any "wow" moments? I'm constantly surprised how blown away people are when they try (real) VR for the first time. That's what makes me optimistic about it as a medium.

The problem I think, is how many people will actually pay that money to be "blown away" one time, and how many people will pay to be "blown away" multiple times after. We had few "VR experience center"s in our little city, they were popular when they just opened, but now most of it are closed. So, I think "blown away" is not enough, usefulness is important.

"usefulness" feels like a very limiting word. If (as I suspect) VR will become a new creative medium then it's an odd word to pick. Are movies and symphonies "useful"?

I'd prefer to use words along the lines of "inspring", "enchanting", "compelling" if we're going to discuss the potential of VR.

(I'm not belittling the large number of practical applications of VR in healthcare, training, education and content creation - but I don't think they will drive mainstream adoption in the way that creative, immersive applications could)

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#112

Post by andybak »

bsimpson wrote: post #50
rqs wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I think, is how many people will actually pay that money to be "blown away" one time, and how many people will pay to be "blown away" multiple times after. We had few "VR experience center"s in our little city, they were popular when they just opened, but now most of it are closed. So, I think "blown away" is not enough, usefulness is important.

I remember playing a VR game at a mall kiosk in the 90s. I realize that the component miniaturization that came along with mobile phones has huge ramifications for the cost and quality of VR, but it's not like there haven't been people thinking about VR content for 25 years. Maybe the barrier to entry for VR hardware is low enough now that some small team will invent something that makes it a must-have, but I remain…

> I haven't really used an Oculus or a Vive, so I hope this isn't coming from a place of abundant ignorance,

There's only one way to find out. I'm over a year into VR ownership and it still fascinates me.

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#113

Post by wpietri »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #109
wpietri wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you honestly cannot imagine any negative effects of a hype cycle, especially when I just quoted the fact that hype involves "exaggerating its importance or benefits", then I really don't think I can help you.

Repeating yourself just highlights you don't know how to respond to someone questioning something you hold as unquestionably true. It's not healthy to hold onto anything as unquestionably true, so you have my condolences. Perhaps we have different views of what the hype cycle is, but it doesn't look like you're willing to explore that further. If you were willing to explore it further, picking a previous example wher…

It's not my job to educate you. It's not that I don't know how. It's that I think it's a waste of my time. I made that clear once and you ignored that. I repeated it because you apparently wouldn't take the hint. Which you ignored again, with more lazy, entitled waffle.

If you would like to make it my job to educate you, my casual consulting rate is $250/hour, 10 hour minimum, paid in advance to MBO Partners in Virginia. Until then, adieu.

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#114

Post by skyzyx »

When I first heard the announcement about Firefox OS a handful of years ago, I thought to myself “that’s a bad idea. They should stay focused instead of stretching themselves too thin.”

You’re still not as fast or battery-efficient as Safari on macOS, so for me, Mozilla has more work to do on its core products before jumping onto a new tech project (like Firefox OS) that doesn’t even have a clear use in the market.

You’re not Sony. You’re not Facebook. Focus on what you’re good at now, let those guys find the market and the killer apps, THEN jump into AR.

You still have more work to do where you are. Tell the product people to shut up. FOCUS. Fewer features, better quality.

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#115

Post by samastur »

andybak wrote: post #110
samastur wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was blown away by 3D movies too at first and now don't ever try to see one.

3D movies and TV = new way to view existing content VR = an entirely new medium. Just look at the number of arts projects that use VR. I hear about something new weekly. I don't recall artists around the world getting excited about 3D movies. (Yes - VR has some similarity with games and other interactive content but cinema has some similarity with theatre and the novel has some similarity with poetry)

That may well be true, but your original claim was that we should consider how amazing the experience seems and my point was that based on historical precedence this is not a particularly strong argument.

I happen to think that VR will not disappear as it clearly already is useful for certain applications. It might even be widely-used by general public some day. I am reasonably sure that day will not be in next 3-5 years.

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#116

Post by ZenoArrow »

wpietri wrote: post #113
ZenoArrow wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repeating yourself just highlights you don't know how to respond to someone questioning something you hold as unquestionably true. It's not healthy to hold onto anything as unquestionably true, so you have my condolences. Perhaps we have different views of what the hype cycle is, but it doesn't look like you're willing to explore that further. If you were willing to explore it further, picking a previous example wher…

It's not my job to educate you. It's not that I don't know how. It's that I think it's a waste of my time. I made that clear once and you ignored that. I repeated it because you apparently wouldn't take the hint. Which you ignored again, with more lazy, entitled waffle. If you would like to make it my job to educate you, my casual consulting rate is $250/hour, 10 hour minimum, paid in advance to MBO Partners in Virgi…

> "If you would like to make it my job to educate you, my casual consulting rate is $250/hour, 10 hour minimum, paid in advance to MBO Partners in Virginia. Until then, adieu."

Forgive me if I pass on being enlightened on something as trivial as hype. I hope you teach something more substantial to those clients paying $250 an hour.

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#117

Post by andybak »

jaggederest wrote: post #44
andybak wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget "useful" for a moment. How does good VR make you feel? Have you not had any "wow" moments? I'm constantly surprised how blown away people are when they try (real) VR for the first time. That's what makes me optimistic about it as a medium.

Blown away, followed by intense motion sickness, has been my general experience.

What did you try? There's been a lot of work done on what does and doesn't make people sick and most games or experiences aimed at the non-hardcore are pretty forgiving.

(of course a badly set up machine can cause problems. If the frame rate tanks or the tracking is messed up then all bets are off)

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#118

Post by andybak »

samastur wrote: post #115
andybak wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D movies and TV = new way to view existing content VR = an entirely new medium. Just look at the number of arts projects that use VR. I hear about something new weekly. I don't recall artists around the world getting excited about 3D movies. (Yes - VR has some similarity with games and other interactive content but cinema has some similarity with theatre and the novel has some similarity with poetry)

That may well be true, but your original claim was that we should consider how amazing the experience seems and my point was that based on historical precedence this is not a particularly strong argument. I happen to think that VR will not disappear as it clearly already is useful for certain applications. It might even be widely-used by general public some day. I am reasonably sure that day will not be in next 3-5 y…

Maybe when I said "That's what makes me optimistic about it as a medium." I should have said "That's one of the factors..." My brevity undermined my point which I regret.

I do however find comparisons to 3D TV/movies glib and unenlightening.

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#119

Post by wpietri »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #116
wpietri wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not my job to educate you. It's not that I don't know how. It's that I think it's a waste of my time. I made that clear once and you ignored that. I repeated it because you apparently wouldn't take the hint. Which you ignored again, with more lazy, entitled waffle. If you would like to make it my job to educate you, my casual consulting rate is $250/hour, 10 hour minimum, paid in advance to MBO Partners in Virgi…

> "If you would like to make it my job to educate you, my casual consulting rate is $250/hour, 10 hour minimum, paid in advance to MBO Partners in Virginia. Until then, adieu." Forgive me if I pass on being enlightened on something as trivial as hype. I hope you teach something more substantial to those clients paying $250 an hour.

Imagine my relief.

Re: Mozilla’s Servo Team Joining Mixed Reality

#120

Post by samastur »

andybak wrote: post #118
samastur wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may well be true, but your original claim was that we should consider how amazing the experience seems and my point was that based on historical precedence this is not a particularly strong argument. I happen to think that VR will not disappear as it clearly already is useful for certain applications. It might even be widely-used by general public some day. I am reasonably sure that day will not be in next 3-5 y…

Maybe when I said "That's what makes me optimistic about it as a medium." I should have said "That's one of the factors..." My brevity undermined my point which I regret. I do however find comparisons to 3D TV/movies glib and unenlightening.

Glib? That's a lot to read into a comment why I don't trust my first impressions.

I agree that VR is a different medium and that 3D movies probably aren't, but you lost me at why that should matter. I still don't understand that, but that's fine as I also lost interest when you made this personal. I will not respond to any further comments in this thread.

Btw, I think we have common friends in Brighton. Your name occasionally came up when I used to work at Aptivate.

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