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Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

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Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#111
post #109
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, no you can’t make that equivalent reasoning And yet I seem to have done it. > People blaming communism makes a lot more sense You're entitled to your opinion. > because it does deal with what the political regime should be (once again, a dictatorship). Since you persist in arguing about "dictatorship" instead of communism, I don't see any point in continuing this. Edit: instant downvoter I think you missed on…

I don't understand the sentence "your persist in arguing about "dictatorship" instead of communism". Maybe i wasn't clear in what i meant by dictatorship, but i refer to the "dictatorship of proletariat" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletaria... ) which is core to the communist doctrine. You'll probably argue that this kind of dictatorship isn't to be understood in the common sense, but judgin…

> "dictatorship of proletariat" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletaria...) You'll probably argue that this kind of dictatorship isn't to be understood in the common sense

I don't have to. Your own link says so in just the second paragraph:

    Dictatorship of the proletariat is different from the
    popular notion of 'dictatorship'

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#112

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

>> Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom.

Of all these, "Hyper-capitalism" is about the only thing that originates in left-wing political discourse.

Global warming is a concern that arises from observations by climate scientists.

Wikipedia tells me that a concern about overpopulation is as old as the second century BC.

"Evil AI overlord doom" is basically the concern about Superintelligence, which is propounded primarily by a few leading figures in transhumanist circles and such left-wing luminaries as Elon Musk.

Generally, what you could say about all those concerns above is that the "political left" as you put it keeps them in mind, while other political directions (you know, the conservative right) does not.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#113
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place, and the most advanced countries (Sweden, Norway, etc.) are all putting in place a mixed socialist/capitalist system. Also, dialectical materialism didn't necessarily fail just because a set of predictions were made with it didn't come true, it just means that we didn't have…

> The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place Not a true Scotsman, eh? The same argument can be applied to the current capitalist system, too. Some libertarians in fact do so when saying that the problems we see with capitalism don't actually arise from free markets but from precisely the state intervention in those markets that's supposedly meant to alleviate these problems. > and the most…

>> Like many people being lifted out of poverty in the last decades? Like the average person having a much easier life than the average person just a hundred years ago?

Yes, the number of people living under the international poverty line has halved since 2000, however:

a) The international poverty line is currently set to $1.25. This means that, e.g. someone who makes $1.26 a day would be counted as "above the poverty line"... which is very much not the same as "not poor".

b) And more importantly, there is no reason to assume that the fact that people are marginally less poor today, than in 2000, is thanks to free market capitalism, rather than despite it.

In fact, there is another metric of financial well-being, than wages, or absolute or relative poverty: inequality. And that one is _rising_. And has risen steadily throughout the last century. Only in this case we can be very secure in the knowledge that it is the result of free market capitalism- because that's exactly what leads to ever smaller minorities hoarding ever larger portions of the world's wealth.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#114
post #51
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a typical low blow, akin to throwing all right-wing under the guise of Franco, the Weimar republic, or some other right-wing system. Communism has been implemented on small scale. One notable example in Spain [1], problem is that any large political system eventually turns out to be either authoritarian or ineffective or sabotaged (I leave the guess by whom as an exercise to the reader). Its also been applied in…

Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger because trickle-down effects actually exist. Living standards are rising globally incredibly quickly. Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees. Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entir…

>> Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees.

That's interesting, but what is the proportion of middle-class individuals to the rest of the population, in Jordan? If there's 100 kids able to play Diablo 3 in Jordan, while every other kid their age can't afford a computer, then Diablo 3 is not a very useful metric of anything.

Jordan is one of the richest countries in the region btw.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#116
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is reference to Greece and its perceotion that Germany is somehow responsible for their irrespondible spending.

That's a tad bit oversimplified, not just in terms of what actually happened in Greece, mostly private banks being bailed out [0] but also how that whole situation came about. There's been a big elephant in the room nobody really wants to talk about for quite a while now: EU's most successful economies running up massive export surpluses, which really hurt the weaker southern economies [1]. In that regard, it's in ve…

>> Just like it wasn't a coincidence that Greece crashed on the tails of the 2008 recession.

That's a very good point that is completely overlooked in most analyses I've read (and, being Greek, I've read quite a few).

On the other hand, let's not forget that it was Greece that crashed after 2008. Not Spain, not Portugal, not Ireland or Cyprus. All these others, they swallowed the pill of austerity and their economies bounced back. Ours is still connected to the IMF and EU IV that's keeping it alive.

Not that I'm actually convinced that austerity would help us. And I do believe that the measures imposed on us ignored the reality of the Greek economy. But it was not the measures that brought us to our knees in the first place.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#117
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place, and the most advanced countries (Sweden, Norway, etc.) are all putting in place a mixed socialist/capitalist system. Also, dialectical materialism didn't necessarily fail just because a set of predictions were made with it didn't come true, it just means that we didn't have…

> The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place Not a true Scotsman, eh? The same argument can be applied to the current capitalist system, too. Some libertarians in fact do so when saying that the problems we see with capitalism don't actually arise from free markets but from precisely the state intervention in those markets that's supposedly meant to alleviate these problems. > and the most…

> Not a true Scotsman, eh?

No, accuracy. If there's a raft with "YACHT" scribbled on it in permanent marker, and you call it a yacht, and I correct you that it is, in fact, a raft, then my correction is not an example of the No True Scotsman fallacy. To date, there haven't been any 'true' communist states. For that to be so, the workers would have had to hold the power. It is trivial to prove that in most self-professed communist countries, the workers have not held the reigns of power.

For example, in Mao's China only 11% of the communist party consisted of working class people. In Cuba, the working class never held power -- it was a revolution solely of the upper echelons (Actually, the way the revolution was performed was quite clever, I'd advise you to read about it, it's quite a marvel of strategy :)). In the USSR, for a short time, the workers held the reigns, however this was quickly made not the case. And -- to paraphrase Cliff -- if the state truly consisted of and gave power to the workers, the workers would have fought against the destruction of it.

> It's called social democracy or social market economy. It's still largely a free market capitalist system because the means of production for the most part are privately owned.

Yes. It took some of the materials from communism and bolted it on to capitalism so that the roof doesn't fall down every 20 years.

> Like many people being lifted out of poverty in the last decades? Like the average person having a much easier life than the average person just a hundred years ago?

Really? From the UK all I can see is the literacy rates getting worse and worse in either country, people being driven into unspeakable amounts of debt by private universities and bank bailouts, and Americans dying of silly things like Type 1 Diabetes just because they couldn't afford enough medicine.

Just because things are "getting better", doesn't mean that things aren't bad -- in fact, it's an open admission to that fact. Nor does it mean that under an alternate system things would be worse.

> Quite to the contrary, free markets overall have been tremendously beneficial to the development of mankind.

On the contrary, "free markets" of the current ideation have only existed for about a hundred years or so. Just because something is a market doesn't mean that you can jam it into the capitalist Free Market slot. I'd advise you to read Ellen Meiksins Wood "The Origins of Capitalism" for an academically correct view on this.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#118
post #26

(My comment will get buried because I'm flagged but whatever) I had drinks with a bunch of Hugo award winners and candidates a couple of years back (2015?) and we started talking about near-future stuff. Mainly that I was looking for more of it. (Diamond Age fans out there?) A funny thing came up: It's getting harder and harder to predict near-future stuff for some authors. I don't understand why. Is it that technolo…

Daniel Suarez fiction works are very on point with near future while also being fun.

Awesome. Which book would you recommend?
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