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Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

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Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#111

Post by ssijak »

dandr01d wrote: post #102
tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

I second this. I'm currently on a team that has a couple senior engineers, but neither of them are true experts of what our team does (iOS). One has decades of web dev experience while the other has decades of Java service experience. Our team badly needs an iOS expert to make the tough decisions and lead architecture.

You misses the point

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#112

Post by Danihan »

darethas wrote: post #53
myth_drannon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are genius level people, not someone we can actually ever become one.

Most of the recent psychologists who study expert performers all tend to agree that "genius level" just like "innate talent" is a cognitive distortion and discredits the amount of actual effort, practice, and honing of their craft these individuals put into it. We are all born with the same brain* (edit: see the ted talk on the "After 83,000 brain scans"). Some of us just aren't born in the right environment to curat…

>We are all born with the same brain

That's not what he says at all.

>https://singjupost.com/daniel-amen-on-the-most-important-les...

The "most important lesson" is about the importance of diagnosing brain injuries and pursuing neuro-rehabilitation.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#113

Post by sumeno »

danjoc wrote: post #63

Ageism is more than hiring young. It's letting people go or burning them out as they age too. These companies expect excessive overtime until people burn out. As developers and IT staff age, they self select out of it, because it isn't healthy. https://www.quora.com/How-many-hours-a-week-does-a-typical-G... "10am to 8pm on weekdays, no work on weekends? That's not a lot, not by a long shot." See, they have such stock…

10-8 on weekdays with no weekends is only 50 hours a week assuming you are working the entire time. Not ideal but it isn't an absurd amount of time either. Sure 8pm is late but they are also getting to work at 10am. People wouldn't be nearly as upset by someone saying they are at work from 8-6

I think it varies greatly depending on what team you're on but I work ~40 hours a week most weeks

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#114

Post by joe_the_user »

Gargoyle wrote: post #22

In the general sense, this is the wrong place to ask. It's a self-selecting group in that most people over 40 here will be among the group that lasted in the career. It won't give a sense of how large that group is in the wider world, nor how many didn't stick with it. On the other hand, if you want to hear how to make it past 40 in software, this is probably an excellent place to ask!

In a certain sense, if one has the talent, luck or planning to position one's self to make it in programming after 40, one may well survive to well over 40. One's position shifts from worker to expert.

But if the fact is that a large percentage of folks doing programming a 29 won't be doing it at 45 and aren't going to have a good exit plan (if they made a high salary in that time), then in a sense what's being said is:

"Programming is a dead-end job for those under forty" and about forty is the end-point for them.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#115

Post by astrodust »

artmageddon wrote: post #110
Gargoyle wrote: post #22

In the general sense, this is the wrong place to ask. It's a self-selecting group in that most people over 40 here will be among the group that lasted in the career. It won't give a sense of how large that group is in the wider world, nor how many didn't stick with it. On the other hand, if you want to hear how to make it past 40 in software, this is probably an excellent place to ask!

> if you want to hear how to make it past 40 in software, this is probably an excellent place to ask! So far in this thread: - continue to learn / evolve - go into management(well, someone will mention it) - Go into: consulting / start your own business / remote work I'm not too far from 40 myself. Any advice?

If you're coming up on 40 you should know a lot of people. You should have a work history so ridiculously long you need to omit 75% of it to fit it on a two page resume. You should know the business, which companies are succeeding, which are failing, and what problems are most interesting to you.

This is a huge advantage compared to some recent graduate that has no idea, knows nobody, and is still learning the geography of the industry.

Don't stop learning. Don't stop making contacts, friends, and other connections. At some point you won't need a resume to get a job, you'll just need to know who to call.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#116

Post by pault »

paul7986 wrote: post #65

..

Your core skills have been off-shored and automated. I used to have a similar career and the majority of the clients that used to hire me are now serviced by design templates and WYSIWYG editors like squarespace. Every time a new technology platform hits the mainstream it starts the race to the bottom. You have to stay ahead of it; for me the solution was specializing in React and doubling down on product management. I was in a similar position to you a few years ago but I'm back in the low six figures again and not having trouble finding work. I don't have a family though, so I appreciate how that can work against you.

Edit: I wouldn't spend too much time on Angular; I think maybe 1 out of the last 20 recruiter pitches I've had was Angular; the rest were React.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#117

Post by jdmichal »

otakucode wrote: post #77

It depends highly on how you approach development I imagine. I'm 38 and I've got no problems. But I'm also single with no kids and spend basically every spare minute outside of work in front of a computer, as I have done since about age 9. I've worked with many people who just want a simple job, something they can coast on... and there are absolutely jobs for people that want that sort of position. Management is typi…

> Management is typically like that, since they rarely do anything challenging or unusual or requiring taking risks or being creative.

I think there are a lot of mediocre managers with such behavior. I'll tell you right now, the best managers I've had absolutely take risks all the time. They're typically political risks, rather than technical ones. [0] But a lot of good team management is clearing the way for your team to get work done, which involves putting your own butt on the line. Which is a really scary prospect, when you dig into it. You're sticking your neck out and risking your reputation to clear a path for your team... And if they fail, it's reflected onto your reputation equally or even more!

Oh, and this actually gets worse as you move up. You become responsible for broader swaths of action, so you're taking larger risks to clear larger paths. But at the same time, you have less direct influence over execution.

[0] And there are some number of technologists who abhor politics and maybe therefore don't recognize it.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#118

Post by sreque »

otakucode wrote: post #82
marktangotango wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java and Spring, or C# and .net. Java is derided as the next cobol, but there is a lot of new development, lots of jobs, and strong demand for senior talent. Source; me, been doing java since 2003. Age 40+.

Java is absolutely rightly derided as the next COBOL because it is. It is the abstract concept of bureaucracy incarnated in code. But that means it will likely follow COBOLs trajectory. A million legacy systems written in it will underpin the central core of a million businesses, being the (entirely unrecognized) most important component of the entire corporate structure bar none. And those systems will need care and…

http://matt.might.net/articles/best-programming-languages/

"I don't think Java is all that bad, and I can enjoy well-done object-oriented programming."

This is probably the most accurate opinion of Java the language I've seen, one that isn't tarnished by what anyone has seen in any proprietary codebase.

I would rather program in Java the programming language than Javascript any day of the year, even if I dislike the vast majority of popular Java frameworks like Spring, Hibernate, etc.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#119

Post by astrodust »

jankotek wrote: post #21

Sitting in an office 9-5 is dead-end job. Most people move into independent consulting, remote work, their own business....

I've known a lot of people that don't mind that. They've got a good career and still have time to do other things, like, you know, live a little or raise a family.
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