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California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

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Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#111

Post by tree_of_item »

empath75 wrote: post #102
tree_of_item wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microdosing is the homeopathy of psychedelics. Despite being a meme for years now there has been approximately one blind study, and that one done by an amateur, gwern: https://www.gwern.net/LSD-microdosing tl;dr it's bogus. Lots of anecdotal reports of its efficacy though, but again, why don't these amateur recreational users blind their doses? They're prone to placebo otherwise.

The idea of a placebo effect for psychedelics is kind of amusing.

Microdosing is about sub-perceptual doses. You are not supposed to get any psychedelic effects at all. It is very much prone to the placebo effect. I find it really amusing that anyone thinks taking 1-5ug of LSD is going to do a damned thing.

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#112

Post by jcranmer »

empath75 wrote: post #102
tree_of_item wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microdosing is the homeopathy of psychedelics. Despite being a meme for years now there has been approximately one blind study, and that one done by an amateur, gwern: https://www.gwern.net/LSD-microdosing tl;dr it's bogus. Lots of anecdotal reports of its efficacy though, but again, why don't these amateur recreational users blind their doses? They're prone to placebo otherwise.

The idea of a placebo effect for psychedelics is kind of amusing.

The placebo effect exists for surgery.

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#113

Post by dragonwriter »

tsomctl wrote: post #96
tree_of_item wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microdosing is the homeopathy of psychedelics. Despite being a meme for years now there has been approximately one blind study, and that one done by an amateur, gwern: https://www.gwern.net/LSD-microdosing tl;dr it's bogus. Lots of anecdotal reports of its efficacy though, but again, why don't these amateur recreational users blind their doses? They're prone to placebo otherwise.

It is very much not the homeopathy of psychedelics. Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose. There's some theory that the water molecules "remember" the medicine, or some such stupid bullshit. A microdose of psychedelics (for example, https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-lsd-mushrooms/ ) is misnamed. It's about 1…

> Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose.

That understates the ludicrousness of homeopathy. Homeopathy is dilution to the point where there is an extraordinarily low probability of even a single molecule of the active ingredient being in a dose, not merely no “appreciable” amount.

And, yes, this is very different from microdosing, in which the dose used definitely contains the drug of interest, just at much lower than typical recreational dosing.

Whether the latter has an appreciable drug related effects rather than placebo effects may be an open questio, but it's very different in nature from the former, which absolutely will not have such effects except due to massive fraud (i.e., not performing the stated dilution.)

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#114

Post by tree_of_item »

pantalaimon wrote: post #91
tree_of_item wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microdosing can be done with any psychedelic. It doesn't do anything since microdosing itself is unscientific, but you can try!

Well it's unscientific because there are no scientific studies as it's illegal. There is also no agreement as to what constitutes microcoding afaik.

There are scientific studies on illegal substances like, say, magic mushrooms. There are no scientific studies on microdosing because...well actually I don't know why, because they could do them if they wanted to.

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#115

Post by tsomctl »

tree_of_item wrote: post #109
tsomctl wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very much not the homeopathy of psychedelics. Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose. There's some theory that the water molecules "remember" the medicine, or some such stupid bullshit. A microdose of psychedelics (for example, https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-lsd-mushrooms/ ) is misnamed. It's about 1…

> It is very much not the homeopathy of psychedelics. Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose. That is exactly what microdosing is. > A microdose of psychedelics [is] enough to feel buzzed No it isn't. If you've taken enough to feel buzzed then you took too much, according to proponents of microdosing. Here is a…

Then there's several distinct schools of thought on microdosing. Read the link I posted above.

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#116

Post by tree_of_item »

tsomctl wrote: post #115
tree_of_item wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is very much not the homeopathy of psychedelics. Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose. That is exactly what microdosing is. > A microdose of psychedelics [is] enough to feel buzzed No it isn't. If you've taken enough to feel buzzed then you took too much, according to proponents of microdosing. Here is a…

Then there's several distinct schools of thought on microdosing. Read the link I posted above.

The image in your link uses the term "sub-perceptual dose". How is that congruent with feeling a "buzz"? A sub-perceptual dose by definition is too weak to feel a buzz. If you could feel a buzz, it would be in your perception.

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#117

Post by chidg »

tree_of_item wrote: post #78
darpa_escapee wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a different name, it's a different species.

Is it actually a different species? I was under the impression a "truffle" was just a different part of the larger organism that also contains mushrooms. > Apart from the visual appearance there is no difference between magic mushrooms and magic truffles. The so-called truffles are objectively no real truffle (as those belong to the genus Tuber), but sclerotia of psilocybe mushrooms growing below the ground. Therefor…

Mycologist here. Yes, they are different species. Your quote is partly correct in that 'magic truffles' (also known as philosopher's stones) are not real truffles. They are in fact sclerotia, a hardened 'resting stage' of the organism that protects against drought, and they are not a sexually reproductive part of the organism, unlike a true truffle or a mushroom. However it is incorrect in saying that apart from the visual appearance there is no difference, because there is a clear difference in biological function, and they are generally different species, at least as found in the commercial trade.

The species commonly sold and used as magic mushrooms (primarily Psilocybe cubensis) do not produce sclerotia. Conversely, the species that commonly produce sclerotia (Psilocybe mexicana amongst others - there's a lot of taxonomic uncertainty, partly because the mushrooms themselves are required for identification), although they can and do produce mushrooms, are never reported to be found being sold as mushrooms in commerce - only as sclerotia.

Further, there are consistently reported subjective differences in the experiences engendered by Psilocybe cubensis magic mushrooms and P. mexicana et al. sclerotia. Whether or not this is due to small differences in the profile of the various alkaloids, an as yet unidentified other psychoactive component, or simply psychological priming due to users being told they are different, we do not know.

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#118

Post by [deleted] »

djsumdog wrote: post #6

You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. Buying mushrooms illegally from a legit dealer in the US means making sure they have several uniform bags of the product. You want to make sure they're grown safely in a lab or farm. There are too many people who will go out and just pick mushrooms, which is incredibly unsafe. Unless you're an actual mycologist, it's difficult to tell what's s…

[deleted]

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#119

Post by dwaltrip »

castis wrote: post #61
School-Cotton wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they don't. It's much easier to kill yourself and others by home distilling than by taking shrooms.

The government shouldn't be in the business of protecting people from themselves.

Not at all? Never?

Re: California Could Legalize Magic Mushrooms in 2018

#120

Post by dwaltrip »

setgree wrote: post #47

I think this is a sign of civilization advancing. More on the subject would be difficult to add without creating a throwaway account.

I share both sentiments expressed in this post...

I've had powerful, formative experiences that pushed me in new directions such that my values, viewpoints, and knowledge of the world were shaped in ways that feel increasingly significant as I grow older and pursue a fundamental understanding of the world around me. Much of this stems from endeavors that occurred entirely separately from any psychedelic experience, but I find it hard to imagine that I would have explored certain topics and ideas with the same enthusiasm, without those formative experiences.

A few of the topics that I'm referring to are the nature of consciousness and identity, theories of the mind, cognition, the structure and relations of ideas and concepts in the brain, and how such things change over time.

I believe it has also had other significant positive personal effects in terms of how I relate and empathize with others as well as process difficult personal issues, but this is harder to describe.

I don't think these effects happen automatically -- rather, psychedelics are a powerful tool that, with great care and responsibility, can likely be very beneficial for many individuals.

Like any powerful tool, it can be misused or abused, but as humans it is our job to make the most of the positive benefits while safeguarding and being responsible about the negative effects. I do think that many people today don't realize the extent of the positive benefits, and have an exaggerated view of the potential harms.

Ideally, society can carefully and judiciously integrate the positive benefits these substances provide, as we learn more about them in the coming decades.

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