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Why I left Japan after 10 years

blog.uchujin.co.uk

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Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#111

Post by peteretep »

oskarth wrote: post #12

I don't understand. Why did the person stay for 10 years? This seems like something you notice after 1 year, or even a few months, let alone 10 years. Is there some family context here that is missing?

Yes. You're missing the bellcurve of frustration he described, and I recognize it from other countries I've lived in.

At first, you think you're a bit on the outside because you don't know very much and don't speak the language, and you tend to attribute things to your own ignorance.

As you learn more, more and more of the country opens up to you. You make some local friends, you can survive in a small town where no-one speaks English for a few days, and you can have some experiences not available to tourists.

As you learn even more, you notice little slights you didn't notice before -- he gives the example of honorifics. You understand the nuances of comments people make to you. You realize that you'll never be accepted or taken seriously for who you are, you'll always just be an outside.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#112

Post by danso »

valentinebm wrote: post #65

Quick remark: the Chinese text on the 5th picture (below 'JAPANESE ONLY') reads '謝絕中中國人'. This literally means 'Decline Chinese people', suggesting that the place is specifically not willing to receive to Chinese visitors. Thought it might be interesting to point out.

Someone else in this discussion has pointed out that it makes sense that the Chinese is targeted at Chinese, as most English speaking folk don't know Chinese. And the English phrase is purposefully broad because English-speaking foreigners could be from a huge variety of countries.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#113

Post by jaredklewis »

brucephillips wrote: post #88
fiblye wrote: post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

Most Japanese I know speak Japanese with me. Of course sometime strangers, usually as a kind gesture, speak to me in English. If it seems the conversation can be smoothly done in English, we continue in English. If not, I switch into Japanese and we continue in Japanese. How is any of that offensive or anything but kind?

Comparing the situation to America seems silly. Most people don't speak to Asians on the street in Japanese because most Americans don't speak Japanese. My Japanese wife, on the other hand, was addressed in Chinese when in china town in New York. Yes, confusion sometimes happens in all countries.

English is an International language and the majority of Japanese known at least a little bit. People of all countries can be expected know some English. If they speak to you in English, they are probably working off the statistically sound assumption that you might not speak Japanese, and are merely trying to communicate.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#115

Post by adrianN »

brucephillips wrote: post #88
fiblye wrote: post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

That's because America has many Asian residents that were actually born there and speak the language natively, whereas the gaijin in Japan are almost all not fluent in Japanese. How is it surprising that people would try the most likely language first?

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#116

Post by brucephillips »

jaredklewis wrote: post #113
brucephillips wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

Most Japanese I know speak Japanese with me. Of course sometime strangers, usually as a kind gesture, speak to me in English. If it seems the conversation can be smoothly done in English, we continue in English. If not, I switch into Japanese and we continue in Japanese. How is any of that offensive or anything but kind? Comparing the situation to America seems silly. Most people don't speak to Asians on the street i…

> How is any of that offensive or anything but kind?

When did I say it was offensive?

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#117

Post by Kurtz79 »

EliRivers wrote: post #92
Kurtz79 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the attitude of people from English-speaking countries that the rest of the world should speak fluent English quite puzzling. It is understandable if you are a professional dealing with foreign companies, or if you are involved in the tourism business; that leaves out the vast majority of the population, which is not willing to invest hundreds of hours learning a skill that does not provide any significant ben…

I think you're unfairly generalising. I certainly never expect fluent English from people who don't have English as their first language. I do expect that people who studied a language for years at school should remember some, particularly if those school days were less than a decade ago. This is orthongonal to my suspicion (which I cannot prove) that English education in Japanese schools may emphasise formal rigour…

"I think you're unfairly generalising. I certainly never expect fluent English from people who don't have English as their first language."

That's definitely seems to be the attitude of the author, and that of many people I see posting here, or many people I see every day that do not even try learning some local word. I agree that I expressed my opinion like I was generalizing, not my intention.

"I certainly remember enough of my schooldays French to ask simple questions, give directions, interact with shopkeepers, ask people how their day went, that sort of thing"

As probably do most people learning English at school. It's clear that the author is not talking about this level of fluency.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#119

Post by atemerev »

fiblye wrote: post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

It's small cultural differences. In the UK, the most dreaded crime you can do is cutting in the queue — while in other countries, while still frowned upon, this is not a big deal. Here in Switzerland, if you dare to get your trash out to someone else's container and get caught in the act, you are royally screwed — while people in other countries can't get it, trash is still getting out by waste management services, why so much drama? And once in the US, I accidentally suggested that the US might not be the greatest country in the world in some aspects. Well, I didn't repeat this mistake ever again.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#120

Post by TheArcane »

madaxe_again wrote: post #25

Many of the problems he describes aren't exclusively Japanese, but a few, like the hierarchical view and casual racism are far more particular to the Japanese. It's not hard to understand where it comes from, however - Japan is something of a cultural isolate, and resisted European and others' overtures well into the 19th century - at which point they underwent explosive industrialisation and social upheaval. Then th…

Perhaps the gender inequality issue too.
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