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Introducing Surface Laptop

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#111

Post by denzil_correa »

djsumdog wrote: post #86
captainmuon wrote: post #40

Windows S is completely backwards. If the Windows Store was actually any good, they should make a version without store apps (win32 only) and let customers pay a premium to use signed, vetted, store apps. (Only half kidding...) But this way around, store apps will always be viewed as the cheaper, less featured option.

No one uses the Apple app stop on MacOS because apparently it's terrible. I don't see going to a closed/walled garden system as being any type of meaningful advantage. You're trading off some security/sandboxing for reduced flexibility. If Microsoft wanted something competitive, they'd allow people to add other repositories to their stores, so manufactures could publish their own certs and people could chose to trust…

> No one uses the Apple app stop on MacOS because apparently it's terrible

AFAIK, most major apps are on the macOS app store.

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#112

Post by soapdog »

TheCoreh wrote: post #60
cdnsteve wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you put Electron apps in Windows store so they could run on Windows 10 S?

The Windows Store already supports HTML/JS-based apps, but not using electron. (It uses Microsoft Edge's engine IIRC)

You can use that but you can also bundle Electron apps with WebKit/Blink if you want. Both cases are possible but using the "Windows way" leads to smaller downloads since it doesn't require bundling the engine.

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#113

Post by jsz0 »

deelowe wrote: post #5

I wonder if tying this to the windows store is a good move. The reception thus far hasn't been extremely encouraging.

> The reception thus far hasn't been extremely encouraging.

It can't be any worse than downloading random exe files off the web. Most people are scared to install software on their computers at this point.

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#114

Post by valuearb »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #108
tashoecraft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that having each kid able to brick their computer leads to significant problems for IT in debugging everyone's computer. As well as letting them move away from educational material extremely easily. I agree that great things can happen when kids can truly explore their computer and take away the 'magic', but just handing all kids a laptop and having them go wild is not the way to do it. I don't what is, to be…

Handing them a laptop and having them go wild is exactly the way to do it. If they brick it, they have to work out how to fix it. As one of the kids who was lucky enough to get a BBC Micro, I had zero support. No-one else in my family even knew how to turn it on. No teacher at my school could support me because none of them knew how it worked either. If I broke it, I had to fix it. And no Stack Overflow, so no code t…

This would have been great for you and me, but 95% of students won't even try. My kids barely know how the TV works, and have zero interest in learning how computers work, despite my efforts.

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#115

Post by soapdog »

oceanswave wrote: post #96

A fabric covered keyboard... wondering how that's going to look in a year of use. 1 USB 3.0 port and a proprietary Surface Connect port... So more surface-only dongles if you want to connect to a VGA/DVI/HDMI display. Is the Surface Connect port completely proprietary or is a rebranded Thunderbolt? Starts at $999 for a 13.5" i5/4GB/128GB SSD, and then you have to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro for $49 if you want to use S…

From the page there appears to be a minidisplay port and a card reader. The main use for the surface connect port is attaching it to the dock. I have a Surface 4 Pro here and the experience with the dock and the connector is great.

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#116

Post by valuearb »

smacktoward wrote: post #98
dangrossman wrote: post #27

They're now demoing the Surface Laptop. Thinner than a MacBook Air. Faster than a MacBook Pro. Longer battery life than either. The downside? "Windows 10 S", which only runs apps from the Windows Store. The upside over Windows RT from the Windows 8 era? You can port Win32 apps to the Store today, don't think you could back then. Edit: You can upgrade Windows 10 S to ordinary Windows 10 Pro for $50. Laptops that run W…

I'm kind of gobsmacked at that something like Windows 10 S exists. It's like Microsoft doesn't understand that the absolutely enormous quantity of Win32 apps in use is the moat that protects their Windows business from serious competition. Millions and millions of regular people just assume that it's not really safe for their next computer to be a Mac or a Chromebook or what have you, because they're afraid of the ri…

How would you feel if you were a Windows pc maker right now?

MSFT commoditized your business and sucked all the profits out of your eco-system until your net margins were 2%, forcing you to cut R&D, Design, etc, and compete in a brutal price war without much hope of unique differentiating features or value.

Now MSFT is directly competing with you by so lavishly spending on design that they are years away from making money on their Surface line.

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#117

Post by my123 »

WorldMaker wrote: post #72
tdicola wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest though, no one is going through the trouble to port their app to Windows 10 only HTML and JS. I don't think MS has even talked about that stack at their recent developer conferences.

It's not a "sexy" stack to talk about, but I don't think it is going anywhere. There are quite a few Windows Store applications built on it, including several first party applications from Microsoft themselves. It's a quiet workhorse stack that does the job and gets out of the way. So quiet I don't think people often realize when an app is built on it.

The Store app is built on it.

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#118

Post by my123 »

emptythought wrote: post #35
dangrossman wrote: post #27

They're now demoing the Surface Laptop. Thinner than a MacBook Air. Faster than a MacBook Pro. Longer battery life than either. The downside? "Windows 10 S", which only runs apps from the Windows Store. The upside over Windows RT from the Windows 8 era? You can port Win32 apps to the Store today, don't think you could back then. Edit: You can upgrade Windows 10 S to ordinary Windows 10 Pro for $50. Laptops that run W…

This will be cracked within days, honestly

Oh, it already was.

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#119

Post by masklinn »

rsynnott wrote: post #103
dangrossman wrote: post #27

They're now demoing the Surface Laptop. Thinner than a MacBook Air. Faster than a MacBook Pro. Longer battery life than either. The downside? "Windows 10 S", which only runs apps from the Windows Store. The upside over Windows RT from the Windows 8 era? You can port Win32 apps to the Store today, don't think you could back then. Edit: You can upgrade Windows 10 S to ordinary Windows 10 Pro for $50. Laptops that run W…

> Faster than a MacBook Pro What's their basis for that? I'd have thought at the very best it'd be about the same speed as a 13" (assuming you're not doing anything that uses much RAM; the 4GB would really cripple it there). I'll be interested to see what CPU it has, exactly, but I'd be surprised if it has the HD540/640 graphics. EDIT: Specs here: https://i.imgur.com/Kc1fQ52.png The expensive ones use an Iris 640, so…

> I'd have thought at the very best it'd be about the same speed as a 13" […] so are the Kaby Lake incarnation of the chips used in the non-TB 13" Macbook Pros

Yeah they're comparing it to the nTB MBP, it uses 15W Kaby-U, the nTB uses 15W Skylake-U, I assume generational improvements are where they get "faster".

Re: Introducing Surface Laptop

#120

Post by jasonkostempski »

smacktoward wrote: post #98
dangrossman wrote: post #27

They're now demoing the Surface Laptop. Thinner than a MacBook Air. Faster than a MacBook Pro. Longer battery life than either. The downside? "Windows 10 S", which only runs apps from the Windows Store. The upside over Windows RT from the Windows 8 era? You can port Win32 apps to the Store today, don't think you could back then. Edit: You can upgrade Windows 10 S to ordinary Windows 10 Pro for $50. Laptops that run W…

I'm kind of gobsmacked at that something like Windows 10 S exists. It's like Microsoft doesn't understand that the absolutely enormous quantity of Win32 apps in use is the moat that protects their Windows business from serious competition. Millions and millions of regular people just assume that it's not really safe for their next computer to be a Mac or a Chromebook or what have you, because they're afraid of the ri…

App stores are the opposite of interchangeable. 1 slightly expensive or practically irreplaceable app, is enough to lock in a user for life. That's what MS wants a piece of.
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