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How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

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Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#111

Post by 0xcafecafe »

gizmodo59 wrote: post #47

Things that a student coming to US faces from a developing or under-developed country: 1. Undergo TOEFL and GRE and apply to various universities 2. Save up enough money or even mortgage parents property to pay for tuition and even buy flight tickets 3. Adapt to a new culture, study hard while working part time 4. Finding a job (While its definitely easy for a CS graduate its not the same for other majors) but yet, c…

8.If you are lucky enough to get H1 and grow important enough in your role so that your employer files for your green card, tough luck if you are born in India or China. Be ready to wait for 10+ years.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#113

Post by unityByFreedom »

golergka wrote: post #57
unityByFreedom wrote: post #31

As if this administration cares about the economy. Trump is scared. He projects fear. He doesn't want to live amidst diversity. He only supports people who agree with him (e.g. Milo). He figures fights will cause us all to run to our safe spaces and believe that the world is black and white. The world isn't b&w, it's colorful.

Well, you're certainly painting a very black and white picture here.

Trump is a proud American, as am I. I don't disagree with him on everything, and I imagine everyone could find some overlap if they looked hard enough.

Unity is not the image he's projecting. He seeks revenge on anyone who crosses him [1]. In politics, every day someone will challenge your views or perhaps vote against you and "screw you".

> In speeches and public talks, Trump has repeatedly expressed his fondness for retribution. In 2011, he addressed the National Achievers Congress in Sydney, Australia, to explain how he had achieved his success. He noted there were a couple of lessons not taught in business school that successful people must know. At the top of the list was this piece of advice: "Get even with people. If they screw you, screw them back 10 times as hard. I really believe it."

[1] http://motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-obsesse...

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#114

Post by tankenmate »

jacquesm wrote: post #91
anton_tarasenko wrote: post #76

The tone of tech companies does not resonate with the electorate. The Bay Area basically says to America: We have foreigners here who founded some companies and got rich, so we don't want your visa restrictions. How do tech executives motivate the average American to support this stance? Taxes? IT companies and their owners enjoy a very friendly tax treatment. Jobs? The largest IT companies employ only 20-60k people…

It may not be the desired tone but essentially that's how America got populated in the first place, a place where foreigners with some disadvantage in their country of origin could get rich. And many did. Kicking the door behind you closed once you've got yours or because you're afraid new immigrants will take your job is hypocrisy of a terrible kind for a nation that was founded on immigration.

Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor I'll piss on 'em /

That's what the Statue of Bigotry says /

Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death /

and get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#115

Post by secfirstmd »

542458 wrote: post #62
whatever_dude wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H1B as it is has many problems, but a big salary floor is not the way to go in my opinion. Remember H1B is not just for tech workers. If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. They instead need to go after the companies that learned to game the system. I'm not sure what the solution is here.…

> If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. Wow, that's a really important point. I'm so in the tech-news bubble that I'd never heard anybody say that before - thanks for pointing that out!

Yeah, or what about those of us in the NGO and non-profit sector who need people with specific regional skills/knowledge/experience and/or folks (including tech people) who prefer to take a slightly lower salary because they want to work with us on important stuff? We've had to sort visas on a number of occasions for people. $100,000 would be like one of the highest ever non-profit salaries!

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#116

Post by testUser69 »

542458 wrote: post #62
whatever_dude wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H1B as it is has many problems, but a big salary floor is not the way to go in my opinion. Remember H1B is not just for tech workers. If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. They instead need to go after the companies that learned to game the system. I'm not sure what the solution is here.…

> If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. Wow, that's a really important point. I'm so in the tech-news bubble that I'd never heard anybody say that before - thanks for pointing that out!

If an interpreter is so rare that one can't be found in the US and they need to be hired internationally, then maybe it's worth it to pay $100,000?

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#117

Post by jacquesm »

devmunchies wrote: post #104
jacquesm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be the desired tone but essentially that's how America got populated in the first place, a place where foreigners with some disadvantage in their country of origin could get rich. And many did. Kicking the door behind you closed once you've got yours or because you're afraid new immigrants will take your job is hypocrisy of a terrible kind for a nation that was founded on immigration.

> that's how America got populated in the first place This isn't 1910. We are the top 5 in the world in population. We don't need as much immigration as we used to. Americans should benefit from the American system before foreigners, like, you know, how every other country works.

America never needed immigration, not since the first European landed there. Historically immigration has initially always been to the advantage of the immigrant, only later does the balance shift the other way and do subsequent generations contribute substantially to the bottom line.

> Americans should benefit from the American system before foreigners, like, you know, how every other country works.

First of all, that's not how every other country works, then besides that America is mostly empty space and Americans will benefit from the system before foreigners because they have been there longer, have more starting capital (which is the biggest lever you can have) and tend to know the rules better so they can be worked to their advantage.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#118

Post by jacquesm »

uncoder0 wrote: post #97
ericd wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, it's necessary that it be sufficient for the vast majority of the cases. It's not worth it for most to risk the substantial financial/time outlay to travel/move halfway around the world to visit a country that has a good chance of not letting you in once you arrive on its doorstep.

You think there is a 'good chance' most visa holders will not be allowed entry into the United States this year? The US Issued ~10,000,000 Total Visas in 2015[1] while the current temporary ban on entry only effects at worst ~90,000[2] outstanding visas. Which means roughly ~1% of visas were effected. While a large number of people I don't think this represents a good chance that the US won't honor the VISAs it has i…

> While a large number of people I don't think this represents a good chance that the US won't honor the VISAs it has issued.

You are lumping all of them in the same basket, the chance when you're in the group of 90,000 is about 100%.

Statistics are fun and games as long as you're not in the affected group.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#119

Post by sharemywin »

secfirstmd wrote: post #115
542458 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. Wow, that's a really important point. I'm so in the tech-news bubble that I'd never heard anybody say that before - thanks for pointing that out!

Yeah, or what about those of us in the NGO and non-profit sector who need people with specific regional skills/knowledge/experience and/or folks (including tech people) who prefer to take a slightly lower salary because they want to work with us on important stuff? We've had to sort visas on a number of occasions for people. $100,000 would be like one of the highest ever non-profit salaries!

Sounds like each job class needs it's own salary minimum.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#120

Post by mcguire »

karmelapple wrote: post #99
lukeschlather wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a problem (if it is a problem) that should be addressed by limiting the number of student visas, not by allowing people to get a valuable US education and then telling them to go home. I've worked with many people on H1Bs and student visas. Every single one of them was a valuable person to work with, and they should be citizens. Maybe universities are becoming green card mills, but in my experience e…

Limiting the number of student visas will limit the amount of income for universities, though, so it will be fought at the institutional level. If someone has spent multiple years - especially their undergrad AND graduate years - in the USA, and they are interested in permanent residence, why would we tell that person to leave? If that person can select a job just like a US citizen without fear of getting deported, t…

Even if it's not a tech job?
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