Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 196 posts

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#111

Post by tedyoung »

ryandrake wrote: post #77
NKosmatos wrote: post #72

No offense, but this is applicable in fairy land or in an idealized and fair society/economy. Sure there are exceptions and I bet there are software developers who get what they deserve, but the majority is in no position to negotiate a 3-5% raise. I'm sure that for someone working in Silicon Valley it's true but not for many countries I can think off (including Greece where I work).

It's not necessarily true for Silicon Valley either. Despite the whole "shortage of engineers" fairy tale that just won't die, it's very much an employer's market, and employers are in the driver's seat when it comes to compensation.

I think employers are in the driver's seat because of information asymmetry: they know what the market is and employees (probably) don't. The playing field can be leveled by looking around for information and, if necessary, job shopping. Even if you don't want to move companies, finding out what the market will pay you is the only way to really know.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#112

Post by coredog64 »

redwards510 wrote: post #5

If only things were so easy. Our department gets allocated $XX,XXX each year for raises. My boss has to split that among eight people. If I were to get a 5% bump like OP recommends, other people would get nothing. Sounds like typical D-grade manager motivation. "Everyone work yourself to death and I might throw you a bone after one year!" I'd rather give up that 5% to have a sane work-life balance. It's common knowle…

Devil's advocate: At a low-performance company, perhaps they aren't able to extract any more value out of a developer than what they are paying (plus overhead).

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#113

Post by walshemj »

rhizome wrote: post #56
imaginenore wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being let go (not fired) is awesome though. You get severance pay on top of your new higher salary. So you go and find an even higher-paying gig.

What distinction are you making? If by "let go" you mean laid off, the rules as I understand them require the business to actually eliminate the position.

In America they use laid off as a synonym for redundancy and I have seen people made redundant and comeback as a contractor on 3x pay

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#114

Post by JamesBarney »

redwards510 wrote: post #76
byoung2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen it happen successfully. I've done it at least half a dozen times in my career. I was told "the maximum we can give is a $7k raise since there is a fixed pool for raises in the department." I said if I quit and you have to replace me, not only will you have to hire 2 devs to replace me (as I pulled dev and sysops duty) and pay them market salaries, you will have to pay a recruiter 20-30%. They still wo…

> They still wouldn't budge, so I got a counteroffer for $30k more than I was making, Getting a counteroffer is not the same as what the OP is suggesting. Using another job offer as a leverage for a raise is not recommended by most experts. Just google "Should i accept a counteroffer?". Mainly because you create bad blood at your current employer and you have to be ready to follow through on your threat. Also, that e…

Just as a head up, most of the people who write answers to "Should I accept a counteroffer?" are recruiters who next mortgage payment is contingent on you not accepting the counteroffer.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#115

Post by rosege »

iamthepieman wrote: post #19

I've got raises as high as 206% by switching jobs. Most recent switch a little over 2 years ago resulted in a 20% raise which is much more typical. Never had more than a cost of living increase otherwise (2-3%), My strategy is to move when I stop learning. It maximizes both my enjoyment (learning challenges me and gives me motivation beyond a paycheck which is good for me and my employer.) and my potential earnings.

I have to agree - a big incentive of changing jobs is how much you learn in those first 1-2 years with any new company. Another reason I have found for leaving recently is that the company makes a change that adversely affects your conditons. I am currently working for a company that when I started offered great pay for weekend work. Then new management came in with a mandate to cut costs and this was then removed which has significantly lowered my pay. The company is making record profits and is hugely profitable already so it wasnt done because of hard times. Either way, the way I see it is that its not my company and they can choose to do this - but then I can also choose to work somewhere else where I will earn more now that this source of extra $ has dried up.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#116

Post by toennisforst »

redwards510 wrote: post #76
byoung2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen it happen successfully. I've done it at least half a dozen times in my career. I was told "the maximum we can give is a $7k raise since there is a fixed pool for raises in the department." I said if I quit and you have to replace me, not only will you have to hire 2 devs to replace me (as I pulled dev and sysops duty) and pay them market salaries, you will have to pay a recruiter 20-30%. They still wo…

> They still wouldn't budge, so I got a counteroffer for $30k more than I was making, Getting a counteroffer is not the same as what the OP is suggesting. Using another job offer as a leverage for a raise is not recommended by most experts. Just google "Should i accept a counteroffer?". Mainly because you create bad blood at your current employer and you have to be ready to follow through on your threat. Also, that e…

Of the top five results Google gives me, all are by recruitment agencies who have a strong incentive not to loose candidates and their commission.

The notion that accepting counteroffers is always hurtful to your career is contested to say the least: See this [1] HN discussion from about a month ago.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12624112

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#117

Post by Can_Not »

byoung2 wrote: post #53
cel1ne wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. If you're somewhat good, getting a new developer will always be expensive and it is a risk for the company. The new developer needs to familiarise himself with everything and what happens if he's actually worse than you? Of course no sane boss will ever tell you this. Just nag them and don't accept "no" for an answer.

As director of engineering, I gladly gave generous raises to retain people, because it cost way more in lost productivity to read resumes, interview candidates, and onboard new devs, not to mention the $30k check you have to write to the recruiter. And you're right, one bad hire can be disastrous...apparently the guy that replaced me wanted to prove his value by rewriting the whole architecture. So they spent a whole…

> apparently the guy that replaced me wanted to prove his value by rewriting the whole architecture. So they spent a whole year doing that which I'm sure is much cleaner than the original under the hood, but to the end user, it is not apparent

Anecdote: We had a guy show up, he claimed that we had to do a rewrite. We spent 2 years catching up to the base product. Complete waste of time, had to fire him 1 year into the rewrite. Gained no value from it. He was simply too arrogant, vain, and/or unskilled to bother to read other people's code.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#118

Post by zo1 »

Can_Not wrote: post #117
byoung2 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As director of engineering, I gladly gave generous raises to retain people, because it cost way more in lost productivity to read resumes, interview candidates, and onboard new devs, not to mention the $30k check you have to write to the recruiter. And you're right, one bad hire can be disastrous...apparently the guy that replaced me wanted to prove his value by rewriting the whole architecture. So they spent a whole…

> apparently the guy that replaced me wanted to prove his value by rewriting the whole architecture. So they spent a whole year doing that which I'm sure is much cleaner than the original under the hood, but to the end user, it is not apparent Anecdote: We had a guy show up, he claimed that we had to do a rewrite. We spent 2 years catching up to the base product. Complete waste of time, had to fire him 1 year into th…

What position did he come in as? Seems awfully odd to have a new-hire making such a decision. From the sounds of it, he effectively tied up resources for almost a year before being pushed out?

There are two problems there, from what I can ascertain:

1. The guy wanting to rewrite your product.

2. Management that allowed him to do so without proper motivation and/or cost-benefit analysis.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#120

Post by jaimex2 »

nikatwork wrote: post #94
user5994461 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Manager: "I cant give you a raise [...]" The employee got an offer the next week somewhere else for +30%. He gave his resignation letter to the manager right away. It didn't even occur to him to ask the company to make a counter offer (even though they may have). [Just to say that sometimes, negotiation strategies can backfire, but managers don't seem to realize (or care about) that.]

Being in that situation is so satisfying. Boss: HR won't give me the money for your raise. Employee: I quit. I've been offered more money elsewhere. Boss: No wait actually I can get that extra money Employee: Too late, kthxbai

+1 Never take a counter offer.

You'll get more pay but you're stuck in the same company run by the same narrow minds.

Post reply on HN